Concerned Users of Derpibooru

Background Pony #BA40
The administration could easily choose a slow burn approach and try to push out “undesirables” with the vaguer wording.
 
That was exactly my concern since the start of this, especially since the logs show Vun-Luna / Princess Celestia directly suggesting a ‘slower approach’ and i’m pretty sure there’s a screencap of that being mentioned on the forums too.
 
 
@LightningBolt  
To be fair, I didn’t even know what that one was even doing fully the first time I saw it as I just wanted to avoid it.
 
You’re going to want to rephrase that.  
“I didnt know what i was looking at” is rife for misinterpretation and i dearly hope thats not what you meant.
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I notice that several of the more prominent “just filter it” advocates have changed their user icons to Aryanne images, which cannot be filtered. I hope that those individuals realize that this undermines their argument.
aperture_tech
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@WatermelonRat  
Other people did. They wouldn’t have changed their avatars to aryanne if your side had filtered it. Now you get to deal with the consequences of your actions. You had every opportunity to prevent this.
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@Background Pony #B231  
“Boo hoo I am so offended by downvotes that I must try to remove them (twice) followed by automatic shadowbans against downvoters followed by brigading the site and trying to take it down”  
Get tougher skin. If your art gets lots of downvotes, maybe it is flawed (for example, boring, uncreative, and hostile) or you picked wrong audience to display it to. People are not obligated to like you or the content you produce.  
Also, excessive downvotes are a signal that you should re-evaluate that art and yourself; not that you should attack people for downvoting.
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@WatermelonRat  
Until an avatar tagging system is implemented: uBlock, right-click, “hide element”.
 
If I knew elixir I’d attempt to contribute some sort of avatar tagging system. Also if I weren’t terminally dead.
Background Pony #451A
@Barhandar  
Well, there is the legitimate case where fetish artwork that is in itself harmless gets votenuked. It’s not always a matter of the art being flawed, either. It is being displayed to the right audience, which is a subset of the userbase, it’s just that the rest of the user base goes apeshit when they see their favorite pony doing a poo.
 
Political mouthpieces tend to get the same treatment as scat porn as far as scores go and you know, that just goes to show that most people dislike distasteful shit. The difference is that the former is usually just a political slogan with no other substance, while the latter is a depiction of a character doing something that makes someone have a hard peepee while making most others shudder.
 
Removing downvotes would still be stupid and petty. The only thing more retarded than that would be to keep the downvote button, but punish users for clicking on it.
Barhandar
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@Background Pony #451A  
These few legitimate cases are what R2 (tag your shit), R4 (filter the shit) and R6 (if you refuse to filter the shit you get ding dong bannu) are for. Notably, I’ve seen quite a few political mouthpieces get repeated R2 violations, e.g. removing politics from them.
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@Background Pony #451A  
 
Even good images of Aryanne get way more downvotes than average >>986756. This would otherwise have 1000+ if it was a cannon pony and probably 2000+ if it was both Fizzlepop and posted around the time of the movie.  
Honestly, people getting emotional over downvotes just shows how very emotionally retarded they are. And I mean retarded in the literal sense, they act like a kid and therefore are retarded in comparison to where they should be.
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@WatermelonRat
Other people did. They wouldn’t have changed their avatars to aryanne if your side had filtered it. Now you get to deal with the consequences of your actions. You had every opportunity to prevent this.
 
That’s actually a good idea. Done. I barely use Derpibooru now and have mostly moved to Ponybooru. I just can’t stand the moderation decisions Derpibooru took. I never cared about Aryanne before, now I’m drawing Luftkrieg. Funny how that works! And a lot here will call me a nazi for it too because there is no grey in their worldview, only black and white.
Background Pony #8110
@WatermelonRat  
You’ve not demonstrated to a sufficent amount of people that a sufficient amount of harm comes from people seeing Aryanne images, so why should anybody care exactly.
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especially since the logs show Vun-Luna / Princess Celestia
 
Considering the fact that they’re one of the ones being brought in to fix things as “new leadership”, yeah, distrust is still very high for me.
 
“I didnt know what i was looking at” is rife for misinterpretation and i dearly hope thats not what you meant.
 
I think what LB meant by that was that she was just trying to avoid all the political riffraff and hadn’t known what ACAB meant. That’s what I took it as anyway.
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a sufficient amount of harm comes from people seeing Aryanne images
You are playing the pretend game, remember never to pretend. No harm whatsoever comes from Aryanne pictures, at best it causes distress to emotionally unstable people. The argument would be that the distress is significant enough to warrant a purge.
doloresbridge
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But things with ‘the left’ have been deleted and it’s never been about politics really.
 
I am really curious with your perception here with this. I don’t understand how one could look at this and not see the politics involved. I don’t want to accuse you of ill intent though. I just want to gain and understanding on this perception.
 
 
@Barhandar  
Your insistence on yourself being unbiased just looks like a distraction tactic from the rest of the team being ultra biased.
 
Do I fully trust anyone at the staff at this point? No. It just seems like there was a lot of dysfunction and issues that were going on and even with out the context of the chat logs there was a lot of cloak and danger politics and it feels like anyone can be against you. I find the distrust justified. Anyone could be playing a game with us. Though being a part of the staff is a very complicated position in this mess and the mods aren’t a monolith. Everything I’ve seen of LB is at least publicly against the change. I do not know their full statements or history though. I don’t think that it is productive to put this person’s feet to the coals like some have done though from what I have seen even if general skepticism is certainly warranted.
TheDrizzle404
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Freedom of expression is integral to creativity. Any artist worth his salt knows this and the ones who don’t haven’t thought about it hard enough. I’ve never been any good at organizing my messy thoughts, but here we go anyway.
 
You have the freedom to think, correct? If you lay on your bed and think silently any thought that enters your mind and no one can stop you. It is the bedrock of your being. The most personal you can get, and no one should tell you what you can and can’t think. To claim your thoughts is to claim your very soul.
 
You have the freedom to share your thoughts with others. You may get different reactions from different people from the same thoughts, but that comes with sharing information. This most often takes the form of speech or text like right now. It’s the foundation of human interaction. It sounds too obvious to mention, but sometimes people overlook obvious truths because they’re just always been there. It’s worth stating. Just as you’re free to share thoughts, so are other people. It’s a usually unspoken agreement that everyone around you will be sharing their thoughts and the thoughts on those thoughts, and so on. What’s important is the freedom to do so without repercussions. I’ll cover that briefly at the end.
 
Finally this leads us to art. The freedom to express your thoughts visually. For some reason this is usually seen as more intimate than even the most vivid text description of your thoughts. Perhaps because they hit the quickest, but I digress. Limiting people’s abilities to express their thoughts through art is just as detrimental as limiting their ability to speak or think at all. While it’s important to have your own thoughts, what are they worth if you can’t share them with anyone else? There’s an old thought experiment that asks people if they’d accept a trillion dollars if it meant they were forced to live in isolation for the rest of their life; never interacting with another person directly or indirectly in any way, ever again. It helps people realize their own value for human interaction. It’s why the “freedom in your own room” argument falls flat. You aren’t truly free if you’re only free in a void. You have to be free among other people or it counts for nothing. Allowing both yourself freedom to think and others freedom to think is the peak of human interaction and information sharing.
 
 
Now previously I stressed the importance of allowing people to share their thoughts without repercussions. I have multiple reasons for this. The most important reason is simple decency and empathy. You expect to have your own thoughts and opinions heard, respected and maybe even considered, so why would you not extend that expectation to others?
 
Another important reason that’s often ignored or overlooked is the fact that just because people aren’t saying their thoughts outloud doesn’t mean they stop thinking them. When people share their thoughts, it’s a sense of relief. They feel validated. Even if many people disagree with them they still feel like they’re being heard. You may even be able to change minds one way or the other. If someone is denied that ability, the thoughts fester instead. What could be minor problems mutate into bigger ones. Resentment grows stronger. Eventually, and pretty much inevitably, it comes to a head. They explode and go on a violent rampage because if you can’t share thoughts peacefully, the only alternative is through force.
 
Last reason I’ll give here to keep it “short” is that people often think they’re outnumbered or no one else believes what they believe if no one else is speaking up. This causes a variety of problems on its own, such as warping the truth. Nazis are a popular topic right now, so let’s use them as a quick example. Say you and your 5 neighbors all verbally support the Nazi party because you’ll be shot if you don’t, and any one of your 5 neighbors can report you. Now imagine all of you actually dislike the Nazis and what they’re doing. How will any of you know without sharing that information? You won’t. You’ll all continue acting like you all support the Nazis despite despising them all while hating yourself for it, and that’s no different from actually supporting them.
 
I’ll end it there. No one is obligated to support or like other people’s thoughts and expressions, but if they expect to share their own then they should be offering the same favor to others. Despite the downvotes of BLM images, I didn’t see people suggesting the artists shouldn’t be allowed to make those images. People who support free expression aren’t doing so because they’re secretly evil. They simply value the freedom to, well, be free. Those that value freedom think everyone else should be just as free as they are.
Dsiak
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@TheDrizzle404  
Based burger griffon. The five neighbors is exactly what is going on right now since anyone speaking against the insurrections gets vandalized, looted and mob kicked. It really gives the impression that they have default support when in reality people are just scared to speak up.
Background Pony #8110
@Dsiak  
It’s not a pretend game, harm is a subjective sensation that can be defined along a continuum. You call it emotional distress but ultimately we’re talking about the same thing.
Background Pony #B384
So I’ve just seen this message in this thread:
 
https://derpibooru.org/forums/meta/topics/favorite-episode-of-this-season-of-derpibooru-drama?post_id=4877831#post_4877831
 
full
 

 
That image makes no sense, if you think deeply about it:
 
  • It completely ignores the fears of people that it would be just the first step in removing more things. And those fears are supported by some evidence that it’s in the plans of those who damanded a complete banning of “nazi/racism” themed pictures. People are worried for the freedom of expression in arts to be limited.
     
  • It substitutes the second option in a convenient way, while the real second option would be  
    “Allowing blanket-banning a whole category of arts without a strong good reason might lead to more of similar actions in the future, thus potentially ruining the site in the future”.
     
  • We can change the words “nazi/racist” there to anything!
     
    We could say things like (just a few examples):
     
    “Banning incest images will ruin the site”  
    “Banning tentacle images will ruin the site”  
    “Banning bdsm images will ruin the site”  
    “Banning rape images will ruin the site”  
    “Banning scat/diaper will ruin the site”
     
    All of those are just small percentages in comparison to the total amount of arts here (most are very close to or even lower than the percentage of nazi and racism arts).
     
    But if we begin banning them all, one by one, and then proceed to banning other “low percentage” arts, eventually this site gradually will end up having just vanilla porn at best.
     
    And even more! Since explicit arts aren’t the majority of arts on this site, then it could even go farther and have as a result a site with Safe arts only.
     

     
    So, that picture is just mocking the issue at hand.
     
    People who created it just don’t understand the situation and what’s really at stake here.
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