Concerned Users of Derpibooru

Background Pony #89B9
@Array
It is? Because that implies that they’ve never deleted images for their views before now.
And they have, for glorifying Nazism; attacking people for their race, sexuality, and gender identity; and otherwise being inflammatory. The site has always had standards and made decisions about what views it hosts. Any reasonable person can see that
Also, I would love an answer to my question. What moral right do you have to upload content to someone’s site that they don’t want on their site? Because, as the owners of the site, they can decide what they want on this site. That’s what it boils down to. Legally and morally, and people keep hiding behind “it’s a community and free place to upload pony images” (when it’s never been a place to host every pony image as the mods have pointed out) to avoid this simple question.
 
Relevant bolded.
 
Or are you saying that derpibooru has never deleted or otherwise moderated images on this site for the views the images expressed before now?
Background Pony #89B9
@Background Pony #19F4  
Which still doesn’t jive with the reality that they have taken political stances on the past. And honestly, I think saying “we will not host homophobic/transphobic/racist images here” is a political stance, in that it says certain right-wing/far right political views will not be represented here (in order, those three are: on the border between right-wing and far right, right-wing, and far right, if you’re curious)
 
Also, I doubt Derpi has ever had an anti-censorship stance. Else they wouldn’t censor the above on the site
Background Pony #5F25
@Background Pony #19F4  
Derpyfasts explanation is pretty depressing though.  
The idea the site is now removing content it considers immoral pretty much tells me its just going to get worse. It starts with Aryanne, then someones going to make a dailymail-esque article complaining about the immorality of derpibooru hosting Foalcon, gore, snuff or (god forbid) rape and then they’ll start removing that content. And after thats gone there’s going to be no hope of my “Aryanne being zebradommed against her will” stuff up here and thats pretty much the sole reason I use this site.  
Feels bad.
Boxless

stop using Derpi lmao
@Background Pony #5F25  
I don’t think i’d ever agree with someone with that opinion that stated it outright like that.
 
Probably because most of your lot are bad at tagging and like leaking outside of containment.  
Whatever. We’re all in the same boat now, just don’t flaunt it like an LGBT flag.
Background Pony #FAC7
It has been FIVE DAYS now and we still have no comments by the administration.
 
What the flying fuck is happening.
DerpyFast
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.

Or are you saying that derpibooru has never deleted or otherwise moderated images on this site for the views the images expressed before now?
 
No, it has. But there’s a difference between images that express views, and images that merely depict something.
 
Which still doesn’t jive with the reality that they have taken political stances on the past. And honestly, I think saying “we will not host homophobic/transphobic/racist images here” is a political stance, in that it says certain right-wing/far right political views will not be represented here (in order, those three are: on the border between right-wing and far right, right-wing, and far right, if you’re curious)
 
I said in my post that they’ve taken political stances. My point is that some political stances are more appropriate than others.
 
Also, I doubt Derpi has ever had an anti-censorship stance. Else they wouldn’t censor the above on the site
 
I should clarify, now that I’ve found the right word. By hosting things like rape, gore, foalcon, etc. they’ve taken a de-facto (albeit unofficial) pro-creative freedom and anti-censorship stance. Not an absolute one, since there are things they won’t host, but a very strong one.
 
@Background Pony #5F25  
The idea the site is now removing content it considers immoral pretty much tells me its just going to get worse. It starts with Aryanne, then someones going to make a dailymail-esque article complaining about the immorality of derpibooru hosting Foalcon, gore, snuff or (god forbid) rape and then they’ll start removing that content. And after thats gone there’s going to be no hope of my “Aryanne being zebradommed against her will” stuff up here […]
 
That’s basically where I’m coming from. I’m obviously not passing judgement since I’m still on the site and I can distinguish fiction from reality. But Derpibooru hosts tens of thousands of images that depict very bad things. They’ve been doing it for years so they have no plausible deniability, and I don’t think they had a plan other than “cross our fingers and hope we don’t get caught”. Now, they’ve been caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and they have to decide if they actually stand for artistic freedom, or if they’ve done a bad thing and are very very sorry.
 
If it’s the latter, they’re going to be eaten alive.
Background Pony #89B9
@Background Pony #89B9  
In fact, I’m right. Reading through the mess that is the blm policy thread, I came across this post by derpy.
 
I will quote the relevant bit below
 
I don’t know that censorship has ever historically worked. And depending on your definition of censorship, we have never, ever, been censorship free.
The first image that appears to have been deleted for breaking a rule was on January 16, 2012, just 14 days after the site opened. If you consider deleting images for breaking rules “censorship”, then this site has been censoring images since within 2 weeks of it opening.
We don’t have to host things we don’t want to host, or that artists ask us not to host.
Just because something has a pony on it doesn’t mean we’ll host it.
Background Pony #89B9
No, it has. But there’s a difference between images that express views, and images that merely depict something.
 
While true, there is also a very fuzzy line between expression and depiction, and thew mods have to decide where that line is
 
I said in my post that they’ve taken political stances. My point is that some political stances are more appropriate than others
 
And what makes the stance they’ve taken inappropriate, in your opinion?
 
Edit: Hitting enter after hitting the anonymous button posted prematurely. Derp
 
I should clarify, now that I’ve found the right word. By hosting things like rape, gore, foalcon, etc. they’ve taken a de-facto (albeit unofficial) pro-creative freedom and anti-censorship stance. Not an absolute one, since there are things they won’t host, but a very strong one.
 
Here I must fundamentally disagree. It’s more that they’ve decided to be pro-censorship on certain things, and not so much on others, which boils down to a pro-censorship stance in the end. It’s just a matter of application.
Background Pony #FAC7
@Background Pony #89B9  
You forgot this part:  
Yeah — there’s some really vile shit here. But everyone has their own definitions of vile. And filters make it possible for people to not see things that they don’t like.
 
They had rule about explicit IRL nazi groups before like he’s saying in that post, which I can understand, but they decide to change that just because Wootmaster decided to tip a website off about aryanne and they now act like aryanne is “too much” even though it wasn’t point.
 
That’s the kicker point, the fact that in the future, the proper outraged person can censor stuff they don’t want on the website. You can’t claim that it can’t happen now. They are that flimsy. And by breaking here they’ll open a lot of other people to abuse it equally with other tags, since its not like a lot of news outlets doesn’t have better to do than run with it. I’m sure you could talk to Salon about the rape on the website.
 
I remember when Round stable was still up (I don’t know if they’re still up.), who was the “sjw” side of the fanbase a few years ago (they were Something Awful refugees) they hated this website because it wasn’t “good representation of the fandom” because it was FILLED with porn and the “most upvoted” pictures on the websites often featured explicit stuff, it was starting back then and now its almost always the constant. We are for all intense and purpose an adult website now, def not kid friendly. Yet imagine if someone decided to try to turn this website into a kid friendly one?
Background Pony #89B9
@Background Pony #FAC7  
Not really. What you’re forgetting to mention is that the site runners would have to agree that they don’t want it on here or would expect such a backlash from it that they feel their hand is forced. No one can make them do anything they don’t want to do, outside of a credible threat of legal action.
 
Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Unless there is some serious outrage or it’s something they’re on the fence about or leaning towards removing, I doubt it.
 
To put it simply, I think you’re overestimating the influence one person can have on this site. Feel free to try to prove me wrong, though.
Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab
The Magic of Friendship Grows - For helping others attend the 2020 Community Collab
Dream Come True! - Participated in the MLP 9th Anniversary Event
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends
A Tale For The Ages - Celebrated MLP's 35th Anniversary and FiM's 8th Anniversary
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab

(twi|pony)booru.org
@Background Pony #89B9  
The personal/individual influence is not really relevant. These changes are ideologically motivated. It is reasonable to expect that ideologically motivated changes will continue (because people don’t typically just drop their ideology - or their willingness to force it on others, consequences be damned - overnight, and no ideology that censors ever stops at “stuff that paints us in bad light is banned and this one specific ideology is banned too”). The ideology in question is known, and hence you can also know which changes to expect.
 
Basically, I’m saying the “one person” only applies to the head-staff themselves, who ARE forcing this change despite opposition.
Background Pony #89B9
@Barhandar  
Fallacious slippery slope argument is fallacious.
 
And I’ve seen plenty of cases on the internet where they take large steps on censoring certain crap (both for ideological and non-ideological reasons), then completely stop, or make only small steps afterwards, usually to close loopholes. I have never seen what you have described, so, combined with the whole slippery slope “sliding into deeper censorship” argument, I don’t buy your logic in the least.
Background Pony #FAC7
>Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Unless there is some serious outrage or it’s something they’re on the fence about or leaning towards removing, I doubt it.
 
I won’t do it myself, but you underestimate how easy it is to make outrage nowadays. Just glance at twitter and bam. This isn’t a time for reason, most people just need to be pointed at something to be complaining at and they will complain, especially if the pointer is a minority. (edit: the last of which being Mike Z’s definitively awkward conversation with a fan a decade ago.)  
The atlantic article wasn’t “outrage”, it was close to a hit piece (and already forgotten) from a place with articles such as “why do cartoon villains speak in foreign accents?”. It should’ve been ignored like most of the previous articles were done.
Background Pony #89B9
@Archonix  
Except,.as I said, said extrapolation has never happened as far as I can ses. Also, it’s still fallacious because it doesn’t explain how were going to be tumbling down said slippery slope, just that we are because “it always happens”
 
Let me provide two examples of it not happening as well, to back up my point.
 
First, is nationstates, a silly online political simulator with a very active and diverse base, especially in the general forum, where politics is debated. Well before I discovered the site, circa 2006, they banned the use of the swastika in nation flags. By barhandar’s logic (and according to some in the thread announcing the ban, actually), this would lead to a ban on all Nazi symbolism, then eventually nazis, so on and so forth. In the more than fourteen years since? No change. The iron cross, the Roman eagle (or whatever it’s called), and other symbols are still allowed in flags and nazis are not only not banned after this censorship, they have entire regions to themselves and regularly and openly post on the forums without issue, as long as they stay within the rules. Hardly the descent into censorship that barhandar claimed would always happen
 
Te second example comes from tv tropes.the site admin at the time, Fast Eddie, got his panties in a bunch over the number of tropes with Japanese names. He demanded that all Japanese name tropes be renamed and no more tropes be named in Japanese. This caused quite the outcry from a vocal subgroup of anime fans, who claimed they were being persecuted and censored, while everyone else said they were being ridiculous. In the end he softened his stance a bit (No more renames outside of token loli which was its own issue) but the only new tropes with Japanese names would be those exclusive to Japan. He never pushed that issue of any other to such a degree again, and never, ever advocated for going beyond that line.
 
So, yeah, based on my own personal experience, and the wording of his post, the claim that censorship starts small and never stops growing is indeed fallacious to my eye
 
(Have I ever mentioned that I hate typing on tablet?)
DerpyFast
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.

While true, there is also a very fuzzy line between expression and depiction, and thew mods have to decide where that line is
 
Here I must fundamentally disagree. It’s more that they’ve decided to be pro-censorship on certain things, and not so much on others, which boils down to a pro-censorship stance in the end. It’s just a matter of application.
 
My point about expression vs depiction is that there will necessarily be things that fall squarely into the “depiction” category, and have to be judged as such. As far as stances go, you can be generally anti-something , while still finding cases where you agree with it. Derpibooru censors where it sees fit. However, it also shows a general willingness to allow content merely depicting things broadly considered offensive or problematic, and placing responsibility on the individual user to filter things they don’t like. This implies a strong anti-censorship stance, or at the very least, a strong pro-creative freedom stance. Even if they don’t officially adopt the stance, the site was run as if they have, and the content hosted reflects it.
 
Which brings me back to the heart of the issue. Why does Derpibooru allow content depicting things that are offensive or problematic? Is it because they’re in favour of those things? Is it because they just thought there would be no consequences? Is it because they support artistic freedom? Is it some fourth thing?
 
And what makes the stance they’ve taken inappropriate, in your opinion?
 
It’s not the stance itself, but the decision to take it in the first place. I guess what I’m really doing is offering my interpretation of how Derpibooru has operated in the past, and a set of principles that would (in theory) let it continue operating in that way. I think it’s important for Derpibooru to pick its battles, and be very careful of what precedents it sets by adopting stances. If they make it clear that they will cave to political pressure from outside the fandom, I belive it will encourage people to see what else they can get the site to cave on.
 
 
I’m going to bed. I feel pretty confident that I’ve made my point, so maybe I’ll check in tomorrow, or maybe I’ll unsubscribe.
Background Pony #89B9
@Background Pony #FAC7  
Okay, now.explain how complaints lead to action on the.scale you’re talking about and as easily as you claim. People complain about stuff all the time, online and off, and nothing happens. Without that connection between complaint and action, you’re blowing hot air
Background Pony #FAC7
@Background Pony #89B9  
To your eyes.
 
I would have accepted this with the BLM stuff considering how situational it was,but then the short time space before this , the flimsy “cause” for this, the IMPULSIVITY of it (since they made the change without any preparation or statement), and the fact that the internet as a whole is becoming more tribalistic, none of that shows that the administration will slow down.
 
Your TVTropes argument is especially odd, TVtropes did receive a lot of change other than this. For example the this troper stuff has been scrubbed, most darth wiki was also scrubbed because it was seen as too critical at points.
 
(also the roman eagle precede nazi germany as a germanic symbol. It’s even older than america IIRC.)
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