Concerned Users of Derpibooru

Background Pony #2A39
@Derpy Whooves
Unless they're inciting violence I don't see how images "promoting" the Nordic Resistance Movement (I'm guessing you're referring to ponification) are hurting anyone. Their arguments are (given the assumed context) rational. Now of course you're free to ban them but no one has to approve of such actions. I for one don't like being part of a community with such toxic policies.
Candel
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Hard Work - Merited Perfect Pony Plot Provider badge with only their own art
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Charitable Contributor - Contributed to a series of art packs that helped raise over $10,000 for charity
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
A Really Classy Artist - 250+ images under their artist tag

sleepyhoers
@Derpy Whooves
I appreciate that you have the patience to deal with some of the more antagonistic users and have been sticking around and giving people some more detailed answers about all of this. I hope that you and the other staff can maybe take the valid feedback into consideration without the more side-tracky and antagonistic complaints tainting those valid criticisms.
Background Pony #BA40
@Derpy Whooves
(which, again, I acknowledge are off topic for this thread).


May i suggest making an 'official' thread to discuss it if you wish this thread to be user-to-user discussion only?
I'd have already done so but i feel it may get locked / removed as i am not a mod, and another mod may assume the discussion belongs here.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Background Pony #BA40
May i suggest making an 'official' thread

We did, and it was swarmed by people arguing whether Nazis are worse than Communists, and grinding away at the age-old debate of whether foalcon is pedophilia.

Staff wanted to go to bed, so we locked the thread. People are sleeping or at work now. Maybe the thread will be unlocked today or tomorrow, but first we'll have to figure out whether to wipe out the pages of off-topic debate or simply draw a "Ignore everything before this line" and start again with the same thread.

Maybe we'll make a new thread.

Answer unclear — ask again later.

Either way, THAT thread being locked is not a valid reason to shit up this thread with off topic debate, and no one on staff would mistake this thread as being an official thread.

To be honest I believe I am the only staff member who is even aware of this thread. And if anyone else on staff happens to notice it I bet they'll see all the "COMMUNISM WORSE THAN NAZIS" and will simply leave.
Background Pony #ED09
@Filiecs
Because it seems like the rules have changed to allow moderators more power to arbitrarily delete what they see as 'promoting hateful ideologies' and we have no evidence or assurance that this power will not be abused.

I said before, but I'll repeat it— a few days ago I MIGHT have seen the slipery slope but given mods the benefit of the doubt, hell, I even somewhat agreed (or at least didn't see as worth arguing) with the hiding of blm content after downvoting it as it was just a not-actually-censorship slap on the wrist; It seemed like a very small change that wouldn't really affect the content but still removed it from those who disliked it. A few days ago I MIGHT have sat and decided to look at how the situation developed.
But not now. Before you slapped wrists demurely and now you're shooting people in the dick, while espousing some of the most extremist views from the moderation team. When talking with friends and mentioning this fiasco, the overwhelming response has been people thinking I was joking, that's how stupid the rule is.
Remember when two years ago it was a joke that the site had been "freed of all the dissident filth"? Yeah.
Wellwater
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Just a flurry of H₂O
@Filiecs
@Derpy Whooves
Because it seems like the rules have changed to allow moderators more power to arbitrarily delete what they see as 'promoting hateful ideologies' and we have no evidence or assurance that this power will not be abused. I get that it's hard to draw a line because that may mean accepting content you didn't anticipate or consider when making the line, but without some sort of transparency it seems like you are deliberately trying to make it hard for people to level legitimate criticisms against your policy.

This is basically what I was thinking, but a lot more eloquently put.

Also, thanks for the detailed (if painful to read) breakdown of hypotheticals. A policy has to be able to make sensible, clear, predictable decisions about hypotheticals that are reasonably close to issues that have already been seen or else it won't be flexible enough to handle any changes in circumstance.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Filiecs
some examples of existing images that would now be in violation would be appreciated

That's a good idea, but (beside needing to be in a completely different thread) I would have to ask other members of staff to actually review past images, and right now most people are offline at work or sleeping or busy with other stuff. And I can't make a unilateral ruling.

We all need a break and asking everyone to look at images to speculate about whether they'd be deleted if they were re-uploaded is just asking for more headaches.

That's why when we make rule changes like this, they're forward looking. We draw a line at the rule change and past images are grandfathered in.
Background Pony #ED09
@Derpy Whooves
That's why when we make rule changes like this, they're forward looking

I appreciate you don't enforce the rules retroactively, but I have to disagree with anything related to this policy being forward looking when it basically means constant headaches, and constantly validating political extremists on both sides on the lane which always results in them demanding more, from here on, and when a policy that creates unnecessary workload was defended as it would somehow save effort by mods.
No, this is pure shortsightedness and digging your heels so hard you're in china.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Background Pony #2A39
I for one don't like being part of a community with such toxic policies.

… huh. Because we won't allow a real world Neo-Nazi group spew toxic hatred toward our LGBTQ users, and refuse to 'fairly' delete all of the LGBTQ content on the site to 'balance out' our deleting their Neo-Nazi promotions, it is we who are the toxic ones.



IIRC, was almost word for word their argument, too.

Excuse me while I go look at your posting history.
Background Pony #83EE
@Derpy Whooves
"We draw a line at the rule change and past images are grandfathered in.

One of my concerns is just that. The extent of the changes hasn't been well communicated, and what exactly qualifies as "promoting, glorifying, or trivializing" is unclear.
Filiecs
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Pony #83EE
Also what happens to images that are re-uploaded and merged with the older ones? Would they still be deleted?
Someone could theoretically lead to the deletion of all the old images which now violate policy this way.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Background Pony #ED09
I understand you don't believe me when I say this policy change is going to (and already has) reduce our workload, but it has. As a user on the site hopefully you've seen that the Pride Image protests are now dying down, and most users will hopefully see the site being more responsive and logging them off less. Some of that is because staff is able to focus on stuff other than incoming images and reports.

No, this is pure shortsightedness and digging your heels so hard you're in china

No, it's me, who has actual first hand knowledge of what the changes have actually done for my personal workload, telling you that they helped, and you refusing to accept that I might possibly be telling the truth.
Background Pony #ED09
Deletion reason: Rule #6 - Already answered ad nauseam, off topic for thread
doloresbridge
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

aka Bridgefag
Wow this thread has gotten active. I'd like to remind everyone that we can't let this thread go like the others into an alternate politics/being antagonist blindly. We need to maintain a civil atmosphere so they have no excuse to lock the thread.

@Blossomanon
Some maybe, but I do not think attacking them as communist is the right line of attack. I bet there are people even with those views that are pro free speech and at least may have concerns. Let's not burn the bridge yet.

@Ogen
I have those fears but the best thing to do is to stand firm and resist passively. Give them no excuse and don't come off as paranoid. We have a hunch that this could happen, but to act that it is inevitable and storm off angry is a bad idea.

@Ember Heartshine
I want to be kind to you and not start an argument. My view is that these censorship will have a widespread chilling affect on the whole. Tell me your stance and then I'll explain mine.
Background Pony #C8CF
@Background Pony #ED09
The argument could be made that since Derpi is visited worldwide, what's legal in one country may not be legal in another. I.E. Nazi Imagery is banned in Germany, IIRC. The argument of "it's legal and it's pony" may not necessarily hold up given that.
Background Pony #7146
Deletion reason: Rule #6 - Already answered ad nauseam, off topic for thread
Background Pony #2A39
@Background Pony #C8CF
Derpibooru is based in Britain iirc. Also there's a whole tag of images banned in Russia not to mention all the pornography on the site is probably illegal in a bunch of different countries. In terms of legality the only set of laws that matter are the host country's.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Wellwater
Are you basing this on my saying that I do not have and never have had the power to unilaterally say if an image should be deleted (aside from those which clearly break the law but even then they are subject to staff discussion after the deletion and may be restored) so there is no way for me to say whether a hypothetical image would be deleted or not based on my own personal opinion?

Because it seems that you are saying that my refusal to speculate about future images based on my own personal opinions independent of the normal team process of review is an indication that our practices and policies are incapable of making sensible, clear, predictable decisions in actual practice on non-hypothetical images.

Is that what you mean? Or have I misunderstood?
Scherzo

"No content referencing real world persons, events, or groups are permitted, unless they are directly related to the My Little Pony franchise (i.e. writers, voice actors, etc)."

There. That would cover just about everything that everyone is complaining about.
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