Concerned Users of Derpibooru

Background Pony #765B
I find it slightly amusing that after introducing politicised rules, the staff is annoyed at the political discussion that stemmed from it.
Not that I don't understand it. This entire shitstorm must be extremely tiresome to deal with. But this is exactly why people keep saying you should've kept out of politics.

@Ember Heartshine
No, not taking a stance does not mean you support something. Do you honestly believe the derpibooru staff supports child rape? Or even animal rape and murder, for that matter? Now I'm absolutely not in support of banning foalcon, rape, or anything else, but by your logic, the fact that you aren't calling for them to be banned — the fact that you haven't taken a stance on this — means that you're OK with raping and murdering children and horses.

It's also a very simplistic "if you're not with me, you're against me" mentality. By this logic, anyone trying to host a neutral repository and espousing essentially free speech — and avoids taking any stance — simultaneously "takes a stance" in favour of every single ideology that gets posted. It seems absurd to call someone a fascist when they're apparently also supporters of libertarianism, marxism, stalinism, white supremacy, black supremacy, sharia law, zionism, antisemitism, pacifism, anarchocapitalism, anarchy in general, ecoterrorism, just to name a tiny few out of the hundreds ideas and ideologies that can be represented in art in some way.
Background Pony #ED09
@Background Pony #7146
Would be pretty sad if rather than just accept the rule is idiotic the just dig their heels in and accept deleting every image someone may find offensive, which is the only rational, non despotic way to interpret this rule.
How much more time will they have to spend reviewing bullshit reports about "hateful" images? How much easier would've it been to just don't go downhill like this?
Filiecs
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Pony #ED09
That would be heartbreaking.
I actually really liked the SugarlessPaints pic he posted.
I also really like all the cute Aryanne pics.
I also like the pictures of her getting striped.
I never use filters and I love all the images on this site, even the ones I've downvoted, I love that they are still able to be there.

The thing that made Derpibooru great was that it was one of the few image sites out there did not try and censor art based on ideology. Now that has very obviously changed.
SomeDerpibooruUser

Undesirable
@Derpy Whooves
I'm a bit confused by this response. Does that mean communism is hateful and people are free to report images relating to communism? I don't like communism but I don't think it's hateful, or that images of communism should be deleted for being controversial. And yes, I've never ever reported and image and don't intend to. Like Filiecs said, this site used to value free expression and moving away from that is probably just going to have to opposite effect you want. In your tweet you said you heard the community loud and clear, but it doesn't seem like there's many people in support in the forums.
Background Pony #ED09
@SomeDerpibooruUser
To be fair mang, at least Derpy has the patience to sit down and talk with us rather than just deleting messages that disagree. That's more than I can say for some other mods last night.
Wellwater
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -

Just a flurry of H₂O
@Background Pony #765B
It's also a very simplistic "if you're not with me, you're against me" mentality. By this logic, anyone trying to host a neutral repository and espousing essentially free speech — and avoids taking any stance — simultaneously "takes a stance" in favour of every single ideology that gets posted. It seems absurd to call someone a fascist when they're apparently also supporters of libertarianism, marxism, stalinism, white supremacy, black supremacy, sharia law, zionism, antisemitism, pacifism, anarchocapitalism, anarchy in general, ecoterrorism, just to name a tiny few out of the hundreds ideas and ideologies that can be represented in art in some way.

It's always difficult to remember and accept that defending free speech invariably means defending speech that is either kind of awful according to society's current norms, or seems threatening to national security. If it wasn't, it wouldn't need defense, because no one would mind.

China's Great Firewall, and all the other components of their digital police state, are justified not on the basis that that's how the Party keeps power (even though that is obviously the reason to anyone outside), but because that's how to prevent children from looking at porn, how to stop dangerous terrorist groups, and how to cut down on degenerates undermining Chinese morality and endangering Chinese medicine.
Background Pony #83EE
@Filiecs
Agreed 100%
There's stuff I like but others don't, and there's stuff others like and I don't. The beauty is that they were both always readily available. Hell, some of it my tastes changed and it was nice being able to find or filter it out respectively.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Background Pony #BA40
Because it is entirely off topic for this thread and completely inappropriate. Plus I don't see any new questions that I haven't already answered 20 times in other threads (some of which are locked because they became political shitfights) or images (which are being deleted because the artist asked us to take down all of their artwork because they're sick of political shitfights on their art).

But, Ok, just for argument sake, let me do it and then you can see whether it's appropriate for this thread or not.

Replying to their questions line by line:

Oh, I'm sorry. I can be nicer.

Thank you. If you keep posting like you were, we will have to ban you at some point.

Lemme just ask a couple questions and make a statement, then.

I can't wait.

Why exactly are cartoon nazis bad

Not all cartoon nazis are bad. Donald Duck was a really great example of a great cartoon nazi.

But if the image promotes IRL political parties like Nordic Resistance Movement, Brazilian Integralist Action, Christian Identity, White Patriot Party, or similar groups that promote Nazism or other hateful ideologies, we delete them. We don't want those on this site. Those groups are not welcome. Their members are of course welcome, as long as they follow our rules. But we aren't willing to host images promoting those groups or their IRL agendas.

Other images that portray cartoon nazis are really a case by case thing. Some are perfectly fine, or even encouraged, like the images satirizing the Microsoft Twitter AI.

Other than that, just reduce your question to "why are nazis bad" and I hope that's the answer you were looking for.

while cartoon pedophilia

Our rules already cover this sort of content and we do not plan on revising them any time soon.

And, obviously, you very much disagree with the site as to whether a drawing of cartoon horses fucking is pedophilia.

If you would like more information on this, please review the September Rule #5 change, and any of the many threads in the Site & Policy thread discussing the definition of foalcon on this site.

If you need help finding those, please report yourself with a reason of "Other" and let us know what you are looking for in the text field provided so that this thread is not derailed with support questions even further than it already is.

necrophilia

Please filter it.

rape

Please filter it.

homophobia

Please report it. Images or comments containing racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, or similarly abusive content, should be reported. Please note that during this current crisis we are not reviewing images that were posted prior to this change, so if you report an image from 6 years ago that report will probably just be closed.

If there are images that you think , communism, incest, and extreme violence and murder okay?

I don't like those images. I filter those images. If the image doesn't break our rules we ask you to filter them.

Are you claiming that a nazi pony drawing promotes that ideology?

Some do. Some don't. Some are deleted for Rule #0 because of the actual message of the image. Some are hosted even though they otherwise would break Rule #0 because they are examples of memes from the fandom.

It's a snapshot.

If you do believe that, then why are all of those allowed?

If there are any actual images that are "Anthro + Foalcon" or that show IRL children or IRL pedophilia or bestiality, report it.

And if there's a fetish or theme that you don't like then you should please filter it.

Cartoon characters killing each, or having sex with each other, or doing whatever they want to with each other doesn't break our rules unless it breaks our rules.

Cartoon characters who are allegories for IRL people is fine — Hasbro did it, too, so artists are just following the precedent that was set by the actual show.

But if an image is recreating an IRL racist meme and just substitutes ponies for people, then that's still an IRL racist meme.

And, just to be clear, someone drawing an image of the Cutie Mark Crusaders, drawn as ponies, having sex with each other and Big Mac, who is also drawn as a pony, does not make the artist a pedophile.

And whether the image itself is pedophilic is a subject of great debate, but this site already has a policy on how we are handling those, and we have no intention of changing that policy.

I understand you have problems with those images, I don't like most of them either. Please filter them and stop kink shaming people.

Why do they not promote themselves?

I do not believe murder novels promote murder.

If you don't believe that, why are you banning it?

Because images depicting racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, and images promoting hateful ideologies, are not welcome on this site.

Either it's all fictional content that means nothing or it all promotes negative, and often illegal, things and you need to so some more banning.

Your all-or-nothing argument is not persuasive.

We do not have to ban 'all religious content' because we delete an image specifically calling IRL Catholics murderers.

Nor do we have to delete all images making fun of U.S. Democrats because we deleted an image specifically calling for U.S. Republicans to be shot in the streets.

If the image depicts racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, or promotes hateful ideologies, they not welcome on this site. Same goes for comments.

@Background Pony #BA40
So.

How was that?

For me, I feel like that completely and totally ignores the OP's request:

This is not a place to play 20 questions with the mods or ask for official answers on policy


Do you still disagree with me?

now that it's locked i'm just questioning whether it will continue here

No, absolutely not. That's not the purpose of this thread.

or if the mods will not be discussing it further

Not when I'm sleeping I won't be. And probably not for the rest of the day, I've got other stuff to do.

That thread was locked because for pages it was just people debating which was worse — Nazis or Communists — combined with other unrelated content.

Even if this site had an opinion about which was worse in the IRL, that's none of our business.

Our only business here is this site, and I think we've been super clear that images depicting racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, or images that promote hateful ideologies are not welcome on this site and if people see them they should report them.

It doesn't matter to me if Image A: "An image promoting hateful Nazi themes" is better or worse than Image B: "An image promoting hateful Communist themes".

Which one was worse doesn't matter to me — they both get deleted (assuming they were reported or anyone on staff notices them).

May we get back to the point of this thread now?

Because as a user who wants to talk about the subject this thread is about, I would really prefer to be a user who wants to talk some more about what this thread is actually about.

And, I really don't want to see the same kind of run-away shitfight that happened in the "Ask Mods Important Questions" thread happen here, too.

Let's just keep this thread on topic, ok?

And if you see images that you think break our rules, please report them.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Filiecs
@Derpy Whooves
And that is totally reasonable. I'm not a fan of it myself, but I have seen messages of staff calling people who enjoy that content pedophiles and treating them with disgust and disdain. Which is highly unprofessional.

I haven't seen those messages. I agree that calling other users pedophiles or treating them with disgust or disdain is unprofessional.

But we have had literal pedophiles on the site who repeatedly come back here and bitch about foalcon when what they upload is 100% "no we can not fucking host that nor can most sites on the planet" and when we delete their uploads and try to talk with them about stopping they respond by uploading IRL images of people being murdered or IRL pedophilia here and on DeviantArt and on all of our other personal social media linked to this site, and those individuals can fucking fuck off and die.

So, I'd have to see the actual context for those comments, because we do periodically get literal IRL pedophiles here to try to share all their secret treasures on the site, and despite whatever personal or mental issues that they may have, they are disgusting and disdainful people who can fuck off and die.

But that's only true for those specific individuals, who we report to the police, their ISPs, and to InterPOL where appropriate.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@Background Pony #7146
Thank you for reporting it — I must recuse myself from it because I am here as a user and have been participating in this thread and talking with you about it, and we may not work on issues or reports that are related to threads we have been participating in, so I probably will not even see your report.

But thank you for reporting it.
Background Pony #7146
@Derpy Whooves
I see. So you're saying that fictional content only promotes negative things when you say they do and it only started doing it now because people were complaining. I get it.
I am against censorship, but that's not the policy on Derpibooru, is it? So, I have reported several pornographic images promoting corrective rape and as a member of the LGBT community, I find said content more disgusting than cute drawings of a nazi pony. Are you going to remove them or have you thrown my reports in the trash to come at me with a "filter it" response that you can't seem to give to those complaining about Aryanne, etc.?
Background Pony #2A39
@Derpy Whooves
But if the image promotes IRL political parties like Nordic Resistance Movement, Brazilian Integralist Action, Christian Identity, White Patriot Party, or similar groups that promote Nazism or other hateful ideologies, we delete them. We don't want those on this site. Those groups are not welcome. Their members are of course welcome, as long as they follow our rules. But we aren't willing to host images promoting those groups or their IRL agendas.

How about images promoting IRL political groups such as Antifa or BLM considering that these groups promote hateful ideologies and commit violence? Also the Brazilian Integralists aren't like the others considering their ideology isn't race-based, so how are they "hateful"? Where's the line drawn? Either your rules are applied subjectively according to administrators' preferences or every image "promoting" a movement outside a mainstream party will probably need to be deleted.
But if an image is recreating an IRL racist meme and just substitutes ponies for people, then that's still an IRL racist meme.

And, just to be clear, someone drawing an image of the Cutie Mark Crusaders, drawn as ponies, having sex with each other and Big Mac, who is also drawn as a pony, does not make the artist a pedophile.

If that is the case then how does drawing an image of a fictional race being made fun of make the artist a racist?
Wilmore05

"I don't like those images. I filter those images. If the image doesn't break our rules we ask you to filter them."

You said it yourself Derpy, If people don't like it they can filter it.

Banning things when the filters work as is should show you why we the users are upset.
Ember Heartshine
Wallet After Summer Sale -

the worst Manechat mod
My favorite thing is when fascists/profascists don't understand that refusing to promote their ideology (which is what refusing to take a stance does through complicity) is not the same thing as literal fascism. I suggest you do a little homework.

It's been very amusing watch all y'all climb over each other to defend hatred and bigotry. Keep it up :)
Candel
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Hard Work - Merited Perfect Pony Plot Provider badge with only their own art
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
Charitable Contributor - Contributed to a series of art packs that helped raise over $10,000 for charity
Toola Roola - For helping others attend the 2019 Community Collab
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2019) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends.
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2018) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.
A Really Classy Artist - 250+ images under their artist tag

sleepyhoers
It has nothing to do with the specific ideology being censored, it's that there's increasing censorship at all. People seem to be arguing "well if you're going to censor Nazism then you should also censor foalcon and communism" when that's not at all what should be happening. None of the above should be censored. The site has filters and a hide button. Use them.
Infrayellow
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Wallet After Summer Sale -
Artist -

@Candel
Exactly. This whole thing happened because mods are trying to appeal to SJWs over that stupid article. You give them 1 inch and they'll take a mile. I don't know why there's still so many people that don't understand this.
Derpy Whooves
Artist -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Artistic Detective - For awesome dedication to sleuthing out and maintaining artist tags and links
Economist -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!

Site Moderator
Artist Concierge
@SomeDerpibooruUser
@Derpy Whooves
I'm a bit confused by this response. Does that mean communism is hateful and people are free to report images relating to communism? I don't like communism but I don't think it's hateful, or that images of communism should be deleted for being controversial. And yes, I've never ever reported and image and don't intend to. Like Filiecs said, this site used to value free expression and moving away from that is probably just going to have to opposite effect you want. In your tweet you said you heard the community loud and clear, but it doesn't seem like there's many people in support in the forums.

Just for clarity, what you are replying to is this:

If you see any images that you believe that promote hateful ideologies report it. We have been very clear and very consistent about that. BTW — you have never ever reported a single image — ever. So please report whichever images you are referring to.

Let's use some real world examples, to hopefully help clarify this.



Both of these are very satirical recreations of actual Soviet and Nazi propaganda. The original propaganda these were inspired by obviously was promoting the ideals of those IRL states.

Neither image is promoting those political ideologies. They are satirizing them. Those images are welcome on the site.

Also they're a nice snapshot of the kind of content that was created by the fandom during this generation of MLP.

If someone uploaded new content with similar themes then we would look at it as a new image. If someone re-uploaded those today, then staff would discuss it. I personally would hope the result would be the same, and I would be in favor of hosting them.

By contrast, someone uploaded a similar image promoting "Nordic Resistance Movement", which is a real, existing, outlawed pro-Nazi organization that is seeking political power. Without getting into a debate of whether they matter, or how much power they actually have, we don't want images on this site promoting IRL Nazi or Nazi-themed organizations.

If someone uploaded a similar image promoting a similar group that was Socialist, we would also delete that image.

This is where it gets nuanced — I'm sure some people think that Black Lives Matter is the liberal equivalent of the Nordic Resistance Movement, and will insist that we delete all images from both groups to "be fair". In fact, the Nordic Resistance Movement people actually said just that, but they were particularly angry that we have images on the site poking fun at the POTUS and THOSE were the images that they thought should be deleted if any of their images were deleted.

When we refused, they countered that all political content on the site of any kind, including images that could be construed as being political such as images of lesbian or gay ponies, should be deleted 'to be fair to everyone'.

Despite all those appeals, and all that pressure from their supporters both on the site (which I'm sure most people didn't even notice), images of BonBon and Lyra kissing are still on the site, and images promoting the Nordic Resistance Movement are not.

So, we are not fair to everyone.

Does that mean communism is hateful and people are free to report images relating to communism?

I think you're focusing on the wrong thing.

If an image just has a swastika or a hammer and sickle please don't report it.

Please report images with hateful messages.

it doesn't seem like there's many people in support in the forums

That's ok. We can see who the BPs are, and the forums aren't the only place where we we get feedback.

Did that help? Or do you still have questions (which, again, I acknowledge are off topic for this thread).
Filiecs
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Derpy Whooves
This is a very great write up, but it also still does side-step the primary concern that us users have:
and images promoting hateful ideologies, are not welcome on this site.

What quantifies this? Where do you draw the line? A list of specific examples of previously allowed images which now would break the rules would be highly helpful.

It's been mentioned that pictures of Aryanne being raped or striped are not in violation.
Is a picture of Aryanne and her cutie mark sitting looking cute in violation? Your posts earlier seemed to imply so.
Is a picture of Aryanne having consensual sex with Anon in violation?
Is a picture of Aryanne having consensual sex with a Zebra in violation?
Is a picture of Aryanne crying over the death of Hitler in violation?
Is a picture of Aryanne gassing griffins in violation? I think most people would say that the act it is parodying is truly awful, but that's how dark humor works.

What about other topics?
Is a picture saying ACAB or All Cops Are Bastards/Bad in violation?
Is a picture saying All Griffins Are Greedy in violation?
Is a picture of a character from the show making fun of 'white fragility' in violation?
Is a picture of an antifa pony looking cute in violation?
Is a picture of an antifa pony executing dozens of ponies that look similar to Aryanne in violation?

Because it seems like the rules have changed to allow moderators more power to arbitrarily delete what they see as 'promoting hateful ideologies' and we have no evidence or assurance that this power will not be abused. I get that it's hard to draw a line because that may mean accepting content you didn't anticipate or consider when making the line, but without some sort of transparency it seems like you are deliberately trying to make it hard for people to level legitimate criticisms against your policy.
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