Ask the Mods Important Questions (V2)

Background Pony #B0EA
So, i nearly on accident reported someone, but i went back.
Does the report still get sent even if you decide not to?
Princess Luna
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Thread Starter - Started a thread with over 100 pages
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Notoriously Divine Tagger - Consistently uploads images above and beyond the minimum tag requirements. And/or additionally, bringing over the original description from the source if the image has one. Does NOT apply to the uploader adding several to a dozen tags after originally uploading with minimum to bare tagging.
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Economist -
A Perfectly Normal Pony - <%Nebulon> Yeah, just fetch me a smaller anus, sweetie.
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From the Night -

Administrator
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@Phoenixflambe
In regards to the history of the ratings guidelines, I went over the revision history, and it appears that explicitly putting nudity where no features are actually visible ("Uncovered breasts/buttcheeks") in Suggestive happened in February 2017. Prior to this, I'm pretty sure (though my memory isn't perfect) that the "almost-visible genitals/anuses" clause captured full buttcheek nudity (on those believed to have visible bits just inside that crack) in Questionable, with the caveat that this was not always common practice, especially in cases where it was seen more as humorous in nature than sexual.
The reasoning for the change was to improve consistency and stop grouping in with bare-breasted shots things that weren't really pornographic, just saucy, and akin to what Disney would put in its PG-rated movies (at least, prior to their recent decisions involving Splash).
Background Pony #970C
So, what appears to be literally every post critical of the content of image 2634583 got nuked on the basis of violating Rules 4 and 6, but the rules in question have the following seemingly-relevant text:

Rule 4
Derpibooru is extremely permissive as to what we allow on this website, which means we allow images that contain themes which some may find objectionable. To help you avoid seeing images you may not wish to see, we have a tag filtering system, which allows for hiding of images that contain specific tags.

If you see images that contain themes you do not like, you should add the appropriate tags to your filter. Do not post comments complaining about the theme of the image.


Rule 6:
Do not indiscriminately downvote images based on their tags and/or content. Instead, filter content you do not wish to see.


A repeated portion of the reason for deletion is "just because you can't filter it doesn't mean you can complain about the theme", directly contradicting the reason why you aren't supposed to do such a thing. Both rule quotations are explicitly predicated on the existence of filters, that you are not to do such a thing because you are supposed to be able to filter it.

How is it against the rules when the function stated as the alternative to voiced disagreement isn't applicable? How is it against the rules when the rules say you're supposed to be filtering it, but there's no commonality of tagging the unwanted content to the point of not even being able to locate a tag to filter?

If criticism of an artwork's message when the issue had does not have a tag to filter is against the rules, why is there a comment section at all? If you're not allowed to disagree with message in a picture and are supposed to filter what you don't want to see, why are there downvotes?

The systems the site has and the rules actually written out do not seem to support the moderation action taken, because the rules specifically tie the disallowance to Filters preventing you from seeing it in the first place. By all appearances, downvotes and critical comments are meant for disliked content that doesn't have a particular tag to filter, exactly what occurred on that post.
Background Pony #8C13
@Background Pony #970C
If an image is not adequately tagged or sourced, please correct it yourself (when possible, report otherwise) and do not complain in a comment.

If you find something does not have a proper descriptive tag that could assist in filtering it so you're not offended, you should be adding that tag, or assisting in discussion on the forums of what sort of tag should apply to certain images.

If you don't want to assist in improving tagging, then you should at least practice some self control and learn to pass over images you find offensive, like the overwhelmingly vast majority of site users manage to do when they bump into an improperlty tagged image of rape or murder or the like. Other people shouldn't have to baby you or tolerate your tantrums.
Ciaran
ラ・ゼッタ - For supporting the site
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Philomena - For helping others attend the 2021 community collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
Silver Supporter - Silver Supporter
Best Art Program Ever - For artists who were courageous enough to draw something for the April Fools day.
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

Moderator
友情は魔法だ🧚
@Background Pony #970C
Please note the phrase "Do not post comments complaining about the theme of the image."

And, in all honesty, a lot of the stuff you posted that we deleted would not have been ok anywhere on the site, except perhaps in the Politics containment zone, regardless of tagging or the theme of the image. That's why some of your posts were also "Rule #6" — they were entirely meta to the artwork (discussing how people IRL should or shouldn't behave) and so were "Off Topic".

If you think the site needs a new tag to handle the set of images that you're talking about, here is the tagging forum where you can propose a new tag. But you could also just filter the "Pride" tag and avoid all of the images that you've been complaining on lately, or click that "Hide" button if you don't like the theme of an image, so maybe a special new tag isn't really needed.
Background Pony #970C
@Ciaran
@Background Pony #970C
Please note the phrase "Do not post comments complaining about the theme of the image."

And, in all honesty, a lot of the stuff you posted that we deleted would not have been ok anywhere on the site, except perhaps in the Politics containment zone


Again, the rule specifically bases this on the ability to filter. "To help you avoid seeing images you may not wish to see, we have a tag filtering system, which allows for hiding of images that contain specific tags." The text of the rule is fundamentally tied to site functionality that, as near I can tell, does not properly apply to the scenario.

If politics is so routinely a source of viciousness that it requires a containment thread named after pony hell, then why does the Politics tag have all of ACAB, BLM, and Proud Boys implying it, and literally not a single thing to do with LGBT when the politics of it are where these issues constantly come up? Why are open political messages in pictures even allowed in the first place if there's that level of lockup on talking about it and that shallow a tagging pool for the issues people have with it?

And why is this not mentioned or even vaguely implied anywhere in the rules if there is in fact a containment thread for politics and comments on political images directly relevant to the topic discussed are not suitable? How is an image of a latex-wearing aggressively butch Rainbow Dash with "I'm not a freak, you just haven't found your kink yet" and multiple examples of Pride iconography wholly unrelated to the subject of how to have LGBT people seem normal?

Is it really that it is utterly and comprehensively against the rules to criticize the theme of an image, in any way, or that there is a total forbiddance of political discussion outside a select few forum threads? If so, the rules need to actually be clear that such is the rule, rather than tying the forbiddance of criticizing theme to the filter function or having wholly unmentioned forbidden topics. By having "do not post comments complaining about the theme of the image" after specifying to filter them, the rule implies the relation in question. When filters don't work, it's not really a stretch to say that a follow-up statement does not apply, because what it is following doesn't.

Of particular note is the not-relevant-in-this-case matter of taking issue with rarely seen combinations of tags rather than any of them individually, as the filter system has no support for such and in my experience there's an extremely low rate of use for niche combination tags, to the point where their existence is rarely considered. Though I suppose being able to filter images with both "Pride" and "Politics" but not those with just one or the other would capture the whole of the issues I have in this matter and leave out the simple "ponies holding and/or in front of various colored stripes".

If you think the site needs a new tag to handle the set of images that you're talking about, here is the tagging forum where you can propose a new tag.

But you could also just filter the "Pride" tag and avoid all of the images that you've been complaining on lately, or click that "Hide" button if you don't like the theme of an image, so maybe a special new tag isn't really needed.

As had been explained at rather sizable length in the comments on the all of two images in question, it's about the implication of violent response to opposition and mentioning a dislike of just throwing a pride flag background because of that having no real point, not about Pride intrinsically.

And what exactly do you think the response to me wanting a "calling for violence" tag or some such for the specific purpose of slapping it on a rather narrow subset of Pride images would be? Do you really think I'd get productive conversation on the matter with any level of honesty as to why I want such a tag? Particularly given that there appears to be such an intensity of vitrol around politics as to require a dedicated containment thread?

Looking over the Pride tag, I can find three downvotes I've left on the latest surge of images (because there is for some reason not a filter for downvotes you've left), with two being for the messaging and the third being for truly awful color balancing (the latter of which has had the downvote removed because it appears to have been fixed). It is not a large block of downvotes, there are actually a few upvotes because I can in fact appreciate examples of the simple "pony with flag" Pride images even if I don't like the lack of idea behind them.

Mind you, I'm not just blankly shouting about frustration with opaqueness in site policy, I am actually beginning to populate my filter.

…Nearest stopgap to get things filtered I can think of without risking my ass by openly criticizing literally any subset of the LBGT community no matter how miniscule or actively hostile to the ordinary is filtering Politics and tossing that tag on the ones that get into slogans instead of just throwing up flags.
Background Pony #699F
@Background Pony #970C
… combinations of tags rather than any of them individually, as the filter system has no support for such and in my experience there's an extremely low rate of use for niche combination tags, to the point where their existence is rarely considered. Though I suppose being able to filter images with both "Pride" and "Politics" but not those with just one or the other would capture the whole of the issues I have in this matter …

Not a mod, but I can help you with that. In the nav bar, if you click on "Filters" and then "Edit this filter" (assuming you already have one created — otherwise, "Copy and Customize" one of the presets):

The sections "Complex Spoiler Filter" and "Complex Hide Filter" are text fields you can write in. Each line works separately as if it was a search, and acts upon the results. For example, if you type pride, politics on its own line in the Complex Hide Filter field, images with both pride and politics tags will become hidden. That's because it works like a search — using a comma works like AND, requiring everything to be present together to be a result.

(You should see my complex filter — it's over 600 words long, if you don't count the excessive section that only exists because of a lack of "canon character" supertag…)
Posted Report
Background Pony #699F
Speaking of filters: while making the response above, I looked through the rules and FAQs pages — and didn't see anything about how to use filters. The FAQs barely mention them. The rules mention "a tag filtering system" and "you should add the appropriate tags to your filter" in Rule #4 of course, and some other places — but none of them hotlink to an explanation of how to make use of them or even to the filters page, which itself has a pretty scant couple of paragraphs mostly explaining what filters do but not anything about how to edit your own in practice, not even the most basic starting point of hovering on a tag when viewing an image and clicking to hide or spoiler it.

The site needs a filtering guide, and it needs to be discoverable in the site help.
Posted Report
Background Pony #B0EA
Are you guys at least aware of other boorus (like Ponerpics, Twibooru, etc.)?
Have you ever considered or thought of partnering with the other boorus?
I'm just curious.
Posted Report
Ciaran
ラ・ゼッタ - For supporting the site
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Philomena - For helping others attend the 2021 community collab
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
Silver Supporter - Silver Supporter
Best Art Program Ever - For artists who were courageous enough to draw something for the April Fools day.
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) - Took part in the 2020 Community Collab

Moderator
友情は魔法だ🧚
@Background Pony #970C
Or, you know, maybe try just not delving into massive examinations of the sociopolitical history of social movements or misrepresentation of histories of ethnic groups on fan art of a cartoon?

If the theme of an image upsets you, or you feel like you have to create a wall of text to explain how the theme shouldn't exist or to explain what the artist should do IRL to make you feel better about them existing, then please hide the image and go look at something you like instead.

The site can't promise that you won't be offended by something here — tags and filters can only do so much, and artists are great at breaking any boundaries you try to put them in.

But we do ask that you add missing tags if an appropriate tag is missing, and if no such tags exist then please hide it if you would have otherwise filtered it.

That's what the hide button is for. Please use it.

Ok?

@Background Pony #B0EA
If I recall correctly, volunteers here helped some of those other sites get up and running, and we provide daily feeds of new uploads and tags and other information so they can get up and running, and in some cases we have volunteers here who are helping with other sites as well.

I mean, the reason the site's core is open source, and the reason we released the previous code for the site to the public, is so more boorus can exist. Competition is good, but we also all serve the same fandom.

@ichiban iceychan 1517
There's enough diversity in the various rule sets that some disagreements between boorus seems natural. That's one of the reasons the code for this site was publicly released — more chances for more boorus to experiment with their own approaches.

For me, our Rules #0 and #1 are very important parts of how this site works, and how it survives. Almost all of my volunteer time is focused on helping artists with copyright issues and helping them present themselves as they wish to be seen for their own personal branding. Where other boorus have chosen to handle those things different, that's their call — they are doing their own experiment in their own way. But because some of them have such fundamentally different approaches to Rule #0 or Rule #1, I'd rather not have anything to do with them. I don't think it's so much any kind of personal animosity as it is just entirely different world views about how online communities like this should work, and what the obligations of the volunteers at those sites have to their users and the artists whose work they host.

But that's the whole point of Philomena — now anyone who wants to try their own way (and who has a talent for it) can, and as anyone who has hung out in our Discord servers can see we'll do what we can to help them get set up and running.

Maybe this site will be gone in 5 years. Maybe it won't be. But now at least if it goes away there will be other boorus to carry on.
Background Pony #B0EA
@Ciaran
Honestly, it's likely the latter, considereing the popularity and new users joining.
And i didn't know they were volunteers.
Posted Report
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