Ask the Mods Important Questions (jk it's politics again)

Derwol
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@Blossomanon deliberately ignore the fact that black are more likely to be killed by police. It’s no secret that more white people are killed by police than black people in the US; white people make up the majoirty of the population, while blacks take up a measly 13 percent! I’d think you’d remember that number.
 
Actually, they are not. Look here if you want proof. Posted by a black man, no less.
Barhandar
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@Background Pony #A4E5  
The amount of fentanyl in question is beyond-lethal and he had heart issues before, while fentanyl (depressant) + meth (stimulant) is a recipe for problems even in perfectly healthy people. Yes, he would’ve died few hours later without the added stress of arrest.  
And it is REALLY DIFFICULT to hold someone dozed on drugs down, so kneeling might’ve even been justified. The death of George Floyd, law-wise, is excessive force event during which the perp died to unrelated causes.
 
Also, all four cops involved were fired immediately after.
 
@Derwol  
For bonus points, a lot of actual African Christians draw Jesus as black, and the original depictions show a very obvious Middle Easterner/jew as expected. Jesus’s race does not even matter for his messages.
 
@Derwol  
I bet the BLM are calling him a “traitor to black race/BLM” at best.
wootmasterflex
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Zeeb
@Background Pony #BB0A
George Floyd was killed by his own poor choice to abuse drugs. His heart failed from the beyond-lethal load of fentanyl and meth in his system that was injected before the arrest (and no, the cops are not that clever or agile to be able to inject fentanyl and norfentanyl). If the kneel put enough pressure on the neck to obstruct anything, he would be knocked out in five seconds and dead in thirty, yet he was able to talk. He was rushed to the hospital, pronounced dead on arrival, and autopsied by civilians.
 
Actually this is factually untrue, and two seperate autopsies confirm George Floyd was killed due to homicide, including the pdf you linked hilariously enough
 
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/05/read-george-floyd-autopsy-report-with-cause-of-death-and-other-factors/
Background Pony #A4E5
@Barhandar  
So, it’s just a coincidence that the cops happened to arrest that guy just before he’d die. Of all days. Him kneeling on his neck was totally necessary. The fact that even one of the 3 cops on him was trying to tell Chauvin to release the pressure.
 
I really have a hard time taking you seriously when you are dismissing multiple evidence like that, you reminds me of TUA.
 
Also def needs some sources on your claim. I recall the other autopsy disproved it.
Blossomanon

Not essentially; outright. You want to make broad, sweeping claims? Others are going to make the same against you. Don’t be afraid to type the word “nigger”, Woot. It’s not like you haven’t done it before, in reference to the same kind of people I target with the word regardless of the color of their skin. You used to know just as well as I that white people can be niggers, too. Hell, you won’t even get banned for it. I most likely will. Not that it matters, everything about this current situation is the death knell for Derpibooru, anyway.
 
If you’re going to look at FBI statistics and come to the conclusion that “these people aren’t ACTUALLY committing all these crimes, they’re just being arrested for them!”, then I don’t know what to tell you. Anybody who lives in East St. Louis might.
Amm
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Shoutout to Cammy
Similarly, do not promote Nazism or other hateful ideologies.
 
Alright, that’s pretty vague. What are considered hateful ideologies? Are we guessing the mods and admins political opinions now? There’s a section of BLM that wants to kill cops. Is BLM hateful? How about communism? That’s pretty hateful since most incarnations targeted minorities for inherent traits, but maybe The Frowning Pony is a die-hard Marxist, so it doesn’t count. Some people consider conservatism to be a hateful ideology in the US. Is AJ banned?
 
I don’t really care about Araynne and clearly I’m pushing absurdity with some of the examples, but they remain within the bounds of the rule. Because it’s incredibly vague and doesn’t tell a user what can actually be uploaded or not.
TheDrizzle404
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Rainy Gryphon
@wootmasterflex  
Way to completely misrepresent all parties involved. Not calling for violence? Don’t make me laugh. When you label an entire group as less than human, what do you expect the outcome is going to be? It’s a cowardly tactic so you can try to keep your conscience squeaky clean and pretend you’re not doing anything evil. It’s not to dissimilar from mobbing people and getting them fired from their careers. It’s not that you want them dead, it’s just that you don’t think they should be alive.
 
You want criticism, how about call out the people who deserve it on all sides. Do you know how many videos I’ve watched of people pulling guns on cops, some of them ending fatally for one or both parties, and people like you come out and say the cop is the evil one? Here’s a catchphrase you can adopt instead: All criminals are bastards.
Background Pony #BB0A
I don’t hate black people.
 
That’s fascinating, because I do recall you saying  
Here’s an acronym for you, acronym boy. ABAN. You prove it every day.
 
That’s quite a heavy-handed acronym for someone who doesn’t hate black people to be throwing around.
GreyGears
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Virtually real pony.
There are actually no statistics that back up the assertation that blacks commit the most violent crimes.
Holy s***. That’s some Holocaust-denial level of refuting documented events.  
I mean, the gov itself publish those. Literally first page of Google, stats made during the Obama era, so not some shady-alt-right-secret-underground-tinfoil document.
 
You can’t yell about accountability and justice while purposely looking the other way when it suit you.
Derwol
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@wootmasterflex  
“Homicide” does not mean what you think it means. Any drug-related deaths are always labeled “homicide”. Having cause of death: “homicide” does not prove that the death was caused by the cop as that is not the coroner’s job. It’s up to the due process to decide that.
 
An autopsy can only rule deaths to be caused by four things - natural death, accident, homicide and suicide. Now what do you think drug ODs are labeled with?
Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
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@Background Pony #A4E5  
Oh, someone dozed on drugs (read: inebriated) would TOTALLY just stay home and not, you know, pick a confrontation with the police. As for the kneeling, see above about excessive force.
 
@wootmasterflex  
including the pdf you linked hilariously enough
Prove, with quotes. The entire thing is “no neck damage whatsoever, no hypoxic damage of the brain (read: he was not suffocating and neck bloodflow was not obstructed), heart in a really trash shape, stimulant plus depressant in bloodstream”
 
Also your link stops at first page for me.
wootmasterflex
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Zeeb
@wootmasterflex
Way to completely misrepresent all parties involved. Not calling for violence? Don’t make me laugh. When you label an entire group as less than human, what do you expect the outcome is going to be? It’s a cowardly tactic so you can try to keep your conscience squeaky clean and pretend you’re not doing anything evil. It’s not to dissimilar from mobbing people and getting them fired from their careers. It’s not that you want them dead, it’s just that you don’t think they should be alive.
 
I’m sorry, to my knowledge bastards are still human. And there are even some good bastards, like Yondu Udonta and the guy who invented aspic. They’re still bastards though! And cops even have a choice in the matter, making their decision to uphold and support a system that routinely absolves itself of accountability even more bastard…ish. And I also do enjoy seeing murderous cops lose their careers. I dunno maybe they can take up one of the millions of professions that doesn’t involve shooting unarmed citizens.
 
 
You want criticism, how about call out the people who deserve it on all sides. Do you know how many videos I’ve watched of people pulling guns on cops, some of them ending fatally for one or both parties, and people like you come out and say the cop is the evil one? Here’s a catchphrase you can adopt instead: All criminals are bastards.
 
Well here’s the rub: what is “criminal” changes routinely and in some cases daily. Gay sex was criminal, as well as good ole interracial relationships. And again, even if all criminals were bastards, some bastards are pretty cool. I don’t think this particular brand of whataboutism holds water unfortunately.
Background Pony #BB0A
Actually, they are not. Look here if you want proof.
 
Do I even need to explain why limiting one’s frame of reference to statistics about people arrested for violent crime is a bad idea? Are you just going to ignore blacks who are killed when arrested for non-violent crimes, or without being arrested at all? Will you ignore what exactly qualifies as a “violent crime” and at what rate blacks and whites are arrested for these crimes? Of course, you can’t judge the police based on a single number such as the likelihood to be killed, either, but those numbers you posted are flawed as well.  
Posted by a black man, no less.
 
This is irrelevant, and, I could be wrong, but your inclusion of this statement suggests that you have a confirmation bias. If a black person says something about black people that you agree with, it isn’t immediately true.
Background Pony #D37B
Woot did what he came for and that was derailing discussion away from censorship. We know his biases and we know that nothing will really steer him away from his set beliefs. Better just to ignore his bait.  
Rather than argue about crime statistics, after all, it’s better to talk about the double standard at play not just here but in broader society. After a man flew a “White Lives Matter” banner above Burnley in England, the football club said it was “ashamed and embarrassed.” Meanwhile, a Cambridge professor named Dr. Priyamvada Gopal said “White lives don’t matter” and was promoted and defended. When people react negatively to simple statements like “it’s okay to be white” and “white lives matter” it tells me that they don’t believe it’s okay to be white or that white lives matter.  
In Britain at least society is extremely racist, just not the way Woot wants us to think. I’m sad to see systemic racism coming to Derpibooru.
Filiecs
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Saying that ACAB is a terrible and ineffective criticism is demonstrably false, as the sentiments that inform it have driven actual change. Well, that and burning down a few police precincts. Only through sustained public pressure combined with protests (including riots) have several officers involved in recent extra-judicial killings had attention shown on them and some inkling of justice delivered.
 
Correlation is not causation. Who’s to say that the change wasn’t actually brought about by more rational individuals proposing nuanced arguments to the police directly? Who’s to say the same change would not have happened without the violence? You’re going to need some evidence to prove that ACAB directly had an impact on the change.
 
Trying to force the idea that All cops are bad does not make use of methods which are scientifically proven to be more effective at changing people’s minds.
 
The less you try to force a particular set of views on someone, the freer they’ll feel to reflect honestly on what they think—and maybe even revise their thinking down the line.
 
This is because there is a systemic issue with the police that stems from the top. Focusing on just the few “bad cops” does nothing when the problem is the system that created them in the first place, much like pulling a weed up by the roots. If only a “few” airline pilots crashed their planes per year at an airline you would critique the ENTIRE company, not just the pilots. Likewise criticizing only a few bad cops does nothing if you don’t look at the large system surrounding them. If that worked we wouldn’t be in the current situation we’re in.
 
If the problem stems from the top, then why not focus on criticizing the actual top, a single individual or small group of individuals, and not lumping in everyone below them who may very well support you in your ideals for police reform? If the problem is a system, then why not point out specific problems with the system and provide solutions for how they can be addressed? Yes, there has been lots of that happening recently, but not necessarily because people go around yelling ACAB! More likely in spite of it. My argument is that phrases such as ACAB only serve to hinder your very own goal of police reform and promote extremism.
 
Black people are 2.5 times more likely to be murdered by the police.
 
Yet they are also much more than 2.5 times more likely to be involved in violent crimes.  
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime
 
An investigation by the Department of Justice found that the entire police force was complicit in a culture of lawlessness, a total lack of accountability, and undermining community trust.
 
Of Ferguson. Of a single town. Out of the tens of thousands of towns in America. Your claimed lacked that bit of nuance. There is no reason to assume that the problems of one police force equate to a systemic problem across the entire nation. New York is not Seattle is not some small town in North Dakota.
 
A study by the National Center for Women And Policing found that 40 percent of police families have problems with domestic abuse, several times the national average for American families.
 
Okay but why is this true?  
Is it because people who are violent are more likely to become cops?  
Or is it because people who are cops are more likely to be exposed to trauma which can lead to a higher rate of domestic violence? In which case we should be supporting better mental support systems for police officers?  
Again, correlation is not causation.
 
Not to mention the police as an institution originated from the slave patrols that ensured my ancestors stayed nice and put on their master’s plantations.
 
We are not North Korea, we don’t blame ancestors for the crimes of their descendants. The past does necessarily not define who we are today. Since then the police system has gone under much revision and iteration and improvement. You may not think it’s enough, but I certainly don’t see any ‘slave patrols’ happening today.
 
And that’s not even bringing up the countless videos of police brutally injuring and shutting down protests and even journalists with extreme force that are circulating around the net.
 
There are just as many videos of people responding to police with extreme violence. You need to see the whole context and understand the reasons why what happened, happened to understand what may be a problem and what needs to be changed.  
Police car driving into peaceful protesters?  
Or protesters pushing a barrier up to a police car to prevent it from moving forward, to which the officer responded with a controlled push that injured nobody but resulted in the the police cars windows being smashed and the car needing to be abandoned for the safety of the officer inside?
 
  1. ACAB isn’t the solution, its the problem. The solution is reform, defunding, or abolition. Mix and match to taste!
 
It’s a terrible, ineffective, extremist, alienating, and divisive, way to express a problem if you are actually seeking to fix said problem. Abolition without a proven replacement isn’t a solution either.
TheDrizzle404
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
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Rainy Gryphon
I’m sorry, to my knowledge bastards are still human. And there are even some good bastards, like Yondu Udonta and the guy who invented aspic. They’re still bastards though! And cops even have a choice in the matter, making their decision to uphold and support a system that routinely absolves itself of accountability even more bastard…ish. And I also do enjoy seeing murderous cops lose their careers. I dunno maybe they can take up one of the millions of professions that doesn’t involve shooting unarmed citizens.
It’s purposely dehumanizing language which is a common tactic used by people who like to measure in terms of groups rather than individuals. It makes it easier to make it “us vs them,” with “them” often not needing the consideration given to a typical human. Do you enjoy people with the wrong opinion losing their careers? Because that’s extremely common now. While we’re at it, how do you feel about the 30 odd people losing their lives in the riots defending their businesses, many of whom were also black? I suppose black lives only matter when they’re killed by the people who can help your narrative and goal.
 
But out of curiosity, let’s hear your ideal solution to cops. You should be aware that law and order requires a monopoly of power to operate, otherwise it devolves into might makes right. Who will uphold justice?
 
 
Well here’s the rub: what is “criminal” changes routinely and in some cases daily. Gay sex was criminal, as well as good ole interracial relationships. And again, even if all criminals were bastards, some bastards are pretty cool. I don’t think this particular brand of whataboutism holds water unfortunately.
 
Let’s start with murderers and thieves, then we can move on to whatabout your exceptions.
Background Pony #D37B
Don’t respond to Woot’s posts if they aren’t directly about site policy. This isn’t harassment, as he’s made it clear he wants to start trouble and politicize the site. Letting him derail discussion towards politics is giving him what he wants.
wootmasterflex
Friendship, Art, and Magic (2020) -
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Zeeb
As several people have stated this is sorta derailing the discussion so I’ll go about my way. I’ll leave with this: you may disagree with ACAB and even find it divisive and annoying. But its ludicrous to claim that it “doesn’t work” when several city councils have already begun to pass laws aiming at reforming the police.
 
And ACAB isn’t hate speech as (again) being a police officer is a paid job, not a protected class. Its not on the same level as the racism eloquently displayed when I got called a n*gger by Blossomanon after my very first post in this thread. See ya.
Barhandar
Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)
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@Background Pony #BB0A  
Read the link. If the police start shooting, they file it as “violent” regardless of what the perp did.
 
@Filiecs  
Correlation is not causation. Who’s to say that the change wasn’t actually brought about by more rational individuals proposing nuanced arguments to the police directly? Who’s to say the same change would not have happened without the violence? You’re going to need some evidence to prove that ACAB directly had an impact on the change.
That brings me back to the suffragettes and how their actions most likely delayed women getting full rights in USA.
 
Of Ferguson. Of a single town. Out of the tens of thousands of towns in America. Your claimed lacked that bit of nuance. There is no reason to assume that the problems of one police force equate to a systemic problem across the entire nation. New York is not Seattle is not some small town in North Dakota.
Ferguson? The town with poisoned water? The town with half the council being black?
Filiecs
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Background Pony #D37B  
As I mentioned earlier, I think a more elegant solution as opposed to banning would be to link information about the connected topic to the images. Aryanne pictures can have links to information about the holocaust, heck, they could even be extremely graphic. Pro-communist pictures can link to information about the horrors of communist Russia or China.
 
The solution to ignorance and hate is education and understanding. Not censorship. Censorship only works to ingraine hate further into our community.
Derwol
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Do I even need to explain why limiting one’s frame of reference to statistics about people arrested for violent crime is a bad idea…
 
Yes, you do. You or someone else made the claim that black people are more likely to be killed by a cop in the case of a police encounter. I’ve disproved that. Now you’re making the claim that black people are more likely to be killed in non-violent crime situations like parking ticket disputes and the like.  
According to this 8,786,611 non-violent crime arrests occured in 2017. According to this black people accounted for 2,221,697 of those arrests which is 27.2% of all arrests that occured in 2017.  
When you look at this you will see that 22 unarmed blacks were killed and 31 unarmed whites. When you take into account non-black and non-white deaths because we’re comparing total arrests to total deaths you will see blacks account for 31.4% of total deaths, despite making up 27.2% of all arrests. I will admit that the number is 4% higher than it should be. Is that proof that the police are “racist” though in your opinion? Keep in mind that the yearly cop murder numbers are so tiny they are hugely vulnerable to variance. A single person less dying would make blacks exactly 30% of deaths. In my opinion this is proof blacks are NOT more likely to die.
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