AI Content Help- Ask questions, discuss, comment, complain

Poll results: Do you think the current policy is where it needs to be?

The current policy is where it needs to be
40.51% 64 votes
The current policy did not go far enough
29.11% 46 votes
The current policy has gone too far
25.32% 40 votes
Something else? (Mention it below)
5.06% 8 votes

Poll ended with 158 votes.

Bigcheese
Non-Fungible Trixie -

I don’t think that kind of thing makes the image look any less good.
A signature suggests that someone created the image by hand, which is not true for ai generated images. Although that’s not rule-breaking here, it certainly can cause confusion or be misleading.
More importantly, if the signature on the AI-generated image happens to be similar to a signature of a known artist or designer, it can increase the likelihood of the image being flagged for possible Rule #1 infringement, even if the image itself is different from that artist’s work.
To be clear, we have never seen any version of the pony diffusion model generate an actual artists signature. Even base SD doesn’t do this outside of things like the getty images watermark that it has seen millions of times. It is not a reasonable concern that this will happen with current models. A signature blob on an otherwise good AI generated image should be completely reasonable. The models have learned that art has signatures, and so they make up signature looking things to add to art.
It is easy to remove them, and V5 should make them less likely to occur to begin with, but there’s no intrinsic reason to remove them unless you’re going to enforce an arbitrary ban on them.
So, if you see a signature on your ai generated work, it is a very good idea to take the time to remove it.
Posted Report
Ciaran
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Senior Moderator
友情は魔法だ
@Bigcheese
In the last few months we’ve had examples where we could legibly read the artist’s signature and it was really just a motion-blurred version of how, and where on the image, the artist usually signs. Maybe different models don’t do that, and I understand there’s been some changes made to some models to prevent it. Maybe the people responsible for those images fed the generator one or more of that artists work specifically to replicate that artist’s style. Maybe there was some other reason that it happened.
But it has happened, and we’ll continue to treat it as a Rule #1 violation if it happens again.
Posted Report
Ciaran
ラ・ゼッタ - For supporting the site
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

Senior Moderator
友情は魔法だ
@Zealousmagician
Sorry, no. I didn’t make a record of them. There was a long discussion about one of them on Discord with its prompter though, and IIRC they explained that the signatures were only there because it was also on the source images. My impression was they fed in images from that artist for the tool to regenerate or something.
The signatures were so close a match to the original that finding the artist was possible by just typing in the garbled but still legible letters.
Another time the Patreon name was still visible in an URL that had been partially duped, and it turned out to be an attempt to create an “alternate” version of an artist’s paywalled Patreon-only work.
Generally, AI generated images don’t have that problem. When it does happen though, it’s often some amateurish attempt at style emulation, or someone trying to forge a paywalled version of an image from the promo image.
So, yeah - if an AI generated image has a signature on it, we look to see what’s going on.
Posted Report
Bigcheese
Non-Fungible Trixie -

@Zealousmagician
Sorry, no. I didn’t make a record of them. There was a long discussion about one of them on Discord with its prompter though, and IIRC they explained that the signatures were only there because it was also on the source images. My impression was they fed in images from that artist for the tool to regenerate or something.
Yes, this is img2img, which, depending on the settings used, can end up being equivalent to applying a filter over the entire image. You should handle all img2img of another artists work’s as Rule #1 issues, they are quite literally an edit of the original image (I’m actually surprised the rules don’t call out img2img specifically). But this is entirely unrelated to signatures in txt2img.
I’m perfectly fine with signatures being a Rule #1 issue, as txt2img currently has no issues with that.
Posted Report
Ciaran
ラ・ゼッタ - For supporting the site
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

Senior Moderator
友情は魔法だ
I’m actually surprised the rules don’t call out img2img specifically
Not all artists are bothered by their artwork being used in that way. Some even encourage it. That’s why we have to handle these on a case-by-case.
Posted Report
Zealousmagician
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@Ciaran
My understanding is that the ban on AI-generated signatures is informed by instances where AI-generated signatures have resembled real artists’ signatures- but those instances were examples of AI img2img rather than txt2img. You’re saying here that img2img should be considered on a case-by-case basis, which seems to be what rule #1 covers. Why is it an issue if there are signatures on AI-generated works that don’t use img2img?
Posted Report
Ciaran
ラ・ゼッタ - For supporting the site
Pixel Perfection - I still call her Lightning Bolt
Silly Pony - Celebrated the 13th anniversary of MLP:FIM, and 40 years of MLP!
Shimmering Smile - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of Equestria Girls!
Lunar Guardian - Earned a place among the ranks of the most loyal New Lunar Republic soldiers (April Fools 2023).
Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Flower Trio - Helped others get their OC into the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
A Lovely Nightmare Night - Celebrated the 12th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Tree of Harmony - Drew someone's OC for the 2022 Community Collab

Senior Moderator
友情は魔法だ
those instances were examples of AI img2img rather than txt2img
Sorry, I don’t know that is true. I’m just looking at ai generated images, and not at the generator.
Why is it an issue if there are signatures on AI-generated works that don’t use img2img?
If an ai generated image contains a signature, regardless of the generator, and the signature is too close to an actual artist’s signature, wouldn’t you agree that’s a problem?
Posted Report
Zealousmagician
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@Ciaran
I think it would, but I haven’t seen any evidence at all that txt2img generation is likely at all to create signatures like that. The evidence seems to be based on img2img or inconclusive at best, and it seems like it’s unnecessary to add if it doesn’t occur outside of img2img when rule #1 would cover it.
Posted Report
The Frowning Pony

Administrator
13 blinks per minute
It is easy to remove them, and V5 should make them less likely to occur to begin with, but there’s no intrinsic reason to remove them unless you’re going to enforce an arbitrary ban on them.
Yes, it is easy, and we want people to take that super easy extra step and clean up the image before uploading.
@Zealousmagician
Overfit models and people using LoRAs (I assume) trained on specific artists will definitely get signatures resembling the artist’s using txt2img. txt2img also regularly produces easily recognizable Patreon logos. While exact signature matches using popular models would be a rarity, there are definitely occurrences of results that look recognizable as a specific artist’s signature due to “font” similarity.

The “signature” rule isn’t about that; the chances of getting a random “ghost signature” to come out looking exactly like an existing artist’s signature using a well trained / public model are very slim.
This is about how it’s exceedingly easy to remove artifacts like these, through AI or photoshop or whatever. Leaving them detracts from the image and has it stand out as “direct AI prompt generation with no care put into it” as much as butterfingers, wonky eyes, floating tails, or other weirdness.
If someone takes ~20 minutes cooking up the perfect prompt and settings to get a good image, they can take an additional minute to clean up the most blatant artifacts. Or reroll.
-Craft-
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Artist -

It seems odd to me that the solution to a hypothetical overfit so extreme that it’s nailed down a signature at any reasonable level of fidelity is to just remove the signature. At that point the rest of the image would, in my eyes, also be so over fit that the entire image infringes. Hiding the signature would just make the real problem harder to immediately recognize.
As someone who does Lora training, overfitting can be insidious and hard to recognize immediately. I like to think I’m paranoid about it enough because every lora based image I upload I compare to the training folder to make sure there’s no copying going on. But I’m sure I’ll screw up one day and I’d like to know if I do, I would hate to overfit on some lesser known work and have it go unrecognized. If a signature led to that recognition isn’t that a good thing?
I also agree with the previous posters that this is not really a base model issue but one of extra networks and img2img, in my 10s of thousands of generations I’ve never recognized a signature. Unfortunately the people most likely to get pinged by this signature rule are base model people who are least likely to be infringing.
I do still think removing sigs is a good practice as far as overall quality standards are concerned though
Posted Report
The Frowning Pony

Administrator
13 blinks per minute
@-Craft-
I’m not sure where this hyperfocus on signatures matching exact artists comes from. The rule on it is not intended to cover an exact signature match, as that would already fall under either style emulation or impersonation (even if unintended), and we know that the chances of an accidental clearly recognizable match are very very slim.
We want people to just take an extra minute and clean artifacts like that up. That’s it. Ghost signatures are one of the most obvious tells that someone hit “prompt” and then uploaded. People should figure out how to clean artifacts like that up, and maybe that’ll lead to cleaning up other obvious errors. And maybe then change and add things here and there. And if they continue down that road long enough, well congrats, it’s art with AI assistance.
But if someone can’t be bothered to improve their craft, do some minor inpainting, load up Lama Cleaner, or use any random online tool, then the least they can do is reroll and hopefully get an image without a bunch of squiggles in the corner.
Posted Report
Zealousmagician
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

@The Frowning Pony
Isn’t there some merit in uploading completely raw outputs to demonstrate the current capabilities of AI? If the output is of extremely high quality, and the choice to keep it unedited was actually a deliberate artistic statement, then a small “ghost signature” on an incredible image would be the downfall of that image for no reason other than an arbitrary decision that it looks low quality and thus it invalidates the entire image.
Posted Report
-Craft-
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Artist -

Well I’m not interested in putting anyone on blast but the focus on signature matching is t coming from nowhere.
Sometimes people can in good faith be wrong about some details of a topic and that wrongness may unknowingly perpetuate harm in ways the person might not be aware of. People seeing that wrong can also overcompensate in their correction because they fear the harm that was never intended and before long the whole situation becomes intractable. There’s also just some natural imprecision in the language people are using; you can see more then a few people seemingly lapse into using ‘ai generated’ as a term even when discussing ‘ai assisted’ and that’s leading to some confusion where people start talking about different things.
As far as the actual rule goes and the justification you gave I’m in lockstep with you on it and my overall impression from the ai discord is that most people agree or are at worst mildly annoyed at something they perceive to be of low relevance; but people are seeing talk of copying and pidgeonholing on it.
Posted Report
🐴
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Solar Guardian - Refused to surrender in the face of the Lunar rebellion and showed utmost loyalty to the Solar Empire (April Fools 2023).
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Magical Inkwell - Wrote MLP fanfiction consisting of at least around 1.5k words, and has a verified link to the platform of their choice

IRL 🎠 stallion
@Zealousmagician
If my understanding of the prior discussions on “intentionality of upload” are accurate, polydactyl raw ML output with ghost signatures intact could stay up if the image description was a short essay on the image—perhaps discussing prompt alterations that make such artifacts more or less likely. It seems fairly clear that the intent of quality rules is to stem the flood of big bewbs Fluttershy with missing fingers, even if that image is the prompter’s only upload on a given day.
Posted Report
ashes2day

i noticed that despite having ai generated blocked in my filters, a large amount ai generated images still show up, as they are tagged ai content without being tagged ai generated. i don’t want to block ai content, as i still want to be able to see things such as videos with 15.ai voices. is this supposed to be this way? i didn’t ever have this problem before the tag/rule change
if this is the wrong place to post this, i’m very sorry
🂾𝕃𝕚𝕟𝕔𝕠𝕝𝕟𝔹𝕣𝕖𝕨𝕤𝕥𝕖𝕣𝔽𝕒𝕟🂽
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Crystal Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.
Roseluck - Had their OC in the 2023 Derpibooru Collab.

Goodbye guys ;)
@ashes2day
That’s similar to this issue I saw a few months ago with my filter. Even now,a certain blocked generator tag will still have images show up in comments (with the spoiler image since I have ai assisted and ai generated spoilered, as I don’t want to hide all their artworks - but the Stable Diffusion generator tag is hidden entirely and yet still shows up).
@☬ ᏝᏆᏁᏨᎾᏝᏁᏰᏒᎬᎳᏕᎿᎬᏒᎱᎯᏁ ☬
Might be a good time to bump that question too. It’s been a couple months but nothing was ever done about it.
-Craft-
Solar Supporter - Fought against the New Lunar Republic rebellion on the side of the Solar Deity (April Fools 2023).
Artist -

@The Smiling Pony
I believe he’s saying he wants to see speech synthesis content but not see any image diffusion content, currently there is no tag setup to do that as they are both to be tagged ‘AI content’ and ‘AI assisted’.
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