Video Game General 2: Definitive/Remastered Edition

Mikey
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@Ring Team
It didn’t need to exist. The first game ended ambiguously and the whole story was grey, is it worth risking humanity over a single person? Is it worth killing a single girl for the possibility of saving humanity? At the end of TLOU2 Ellie is about to kill Abby but stops because she remembered Joel for some reason
You can’t tell me it’s a well written story. Especially when it turns out that the doctor you killed was her father, they just pulled that out of their asses.
Ring Team
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@Mikey
Have you ever considered that this doctor might have a daughter or a son instead of jumping into conclusions and say “they just pulled that out of their asses”? Also, that ending from the second game is kinda similar to what happens in the ending of the first game, where Joel changes his mind at the last second. It makes perfect sense.
But hey, let’s talk about the ending then if you wanna go there.
When I played that part, I didn’t know what to feel. I didn’t want to kill Abbey. Thematically, it would have made sense that Ellie would kill Abbey. If Naughty Dog wanted to pull off the message of hate spawning hate, then that would have been a correct conclusion.
That said, I like the real ending more.
This is a depressing game that was released in a horrible year. It’s fair to ask for a little optimistic vibe. Lev saves Abbey, who spares Ellie, who ultimately saves both of their lives. Ellie remembers her final conversation with Joel was a good way of her to say “fuck it”. Why she spared Abby led to so many dense conclusions, it could be interpreted forever. But I think Girlfriend Reviews nailed it with the video talking about the ending, with some crucial lyrics by Pearl Jam.
At the start of the game, me and Ellie wanted the same thing, but then she starts drifting away from Joel, from Dina and the player. She becomes this unrecognizable monster who has lost so much of her own identity that killing Abby no longer means anything to her. When she said “just take him”, she’s not talking about Lev.
When she returns home, Ellie can no longer play Joel’s guitar, which helped her to keep her memories alive. You could see this as a cruel twist of fate, but now that these memories can fade away, Ellie can move on and hopefully live the life that Joel would have wanted for her.
It makes more sense than, say, starting a cult because someone moved away instead of sending him letters or visit him.
To be honest, I don’t know why so many people are mad at this game because they don’t know either.
Mikey
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Prince of Skrees
@Ring Team
That doesn’t matter to me, the sequel was unnecessary. I don’t like Abby either as she’s just a character made to appease that crowd.
The first game ended perfectly and open to interpretation. My point was that they just gave one of the random doctors in the room with Ellie a daughter, it could have been any of them. Joel wasn’t a good person but he didn’t want to lose another daughter (figure) as his was stolen from him for no reason. He grew to love her and care for her. It’s understandable why he would do what he did. It wasn’t right but you couldn’t imagine what went through his mind. They’re about to sacrifice this girl for the chance at a cure. Not a guarantee. It’s morally grey and it worked. The sequel falls flat with it’s “revenge is dumb” message. They gave a random doctor who had no character at all a daughter who sought revenge.
Silent_Witness
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Returned from the Deep
@Ring Team
I’ll admit I may be talking out of my ass here, being one of those people who haven’t played the game, but I can’t help but feel like at least some of the hatred for TLoU2’s ending could’ve at least been somewhat mitigated (though not outright eliminated) had the decision to spare Abby, or not, been left in the hands of the player. If the player had a choice in whether to end the cycle of retaliation on their own terms, or to continue it while accepting the consequences of doing so.
That sort of thing might’ve been out of place in that game, but by taking that choice out of the player’s hands, it deprives some from gaining some sense of closure.
Thanotos Omega
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@Mikey
this is a symptom of the mass effect effect, stories have become to serialized, you can’t do a new story in a franchise it all has to be one huge narrative, it’s a virus that is causing tons of issues in gaming,
Mikey
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Prince of Skrees
@Meanlucario
I know that, my point was that Joel’s dilemma was understandable. Yes he potentially screwed over humanity but it’s hard not to sympathize with him. And for all we know, using Ellie would not have saved them anyway. It’s morally grey and it was interesting.
@Thanotos Omega
Perhaps, but I think they should have had a different story for the sequel. “Revenge is bad” plots are overdone in my opinion.
Meanlucario
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Is that a 5*?
I’m sure that Thanotos is going to hate this, but more games should be like Dragon Age where your decisions from the previous game impacts what happens in the next one, even if it follows a different character.
@Mikey
Honestly, I get the impression that movies glorifying revenge is more common.
Meanlucario
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Is that a 5*?
@igotnopicks
I wasn’t saying anything about ME since it should be given that what you decide Shep to do in the first game should impact what happens in the next one. Joker replacing Shep would be a sight to see, though.
igotnopicks
Thread Starter - Splatoon thread

Monado User
@Meanlucario
I believe it does impact the games 1,2,3 atleast. But the ending to 3 just shat on what you did in the whole series. I believe in the first game you can save a species of rachni if you killed them they get rid of an NPC for you. Not only that but you can kill Wrex in the first game. Which means that someone else takes over that position of leader for Urdnot clan. So yeah. I forget how many other things can happen in the first game.
Also you can kill your entire crew in ME2.
Meanlucario
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Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
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My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

Is that a 5*?
@igotnopicks
That is accurate, yes. The rachni appear in 3 regardless, but if it’s the one you saved than it won’t betray you if you if you save it from the Reapers, where the new one is indoctrinated and will betray you. Again, ME1 is a great starting point, and wasn’t meant to be the only game in the franchise. People who say otherwise care too much about their ideal version of ME1 than the reality.
Ring Team
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@Mikey
[More spoilers of TLOU2]
You could also make the same argument about Abby. She did what she did. It wasn’t right but you couldn’t imagine what went through her mind. It’s all about perspective and comprehension.
Joel was very possesive and manipulative at the very end of the first game. When the game changes perspectives so you can play as Ellie, it was to make you see what a monster he was by not giving Ellie a choice of sacrificing herself and lying her about it. I liked Joel until that very point, not because “the was poorly written” (he’s a very well written character), but because of his arbitrary morality and being manipulative.
Also, quick thing about the “revenge is bad” argument: I really don’t think this game (and even the original) was about to show a profound message. To me, the fun of these games is about to see who these characters are and how they evolve, kinda like Uncharted or any Pixar film: It’s not the journey what makes these stories great, but the characters and their chemistry.
When you’re playing as Ellie you have all these flashbacks, where the fireflies incident is dividing her and Joel. She starts to drifting away from him more and more until she finds out what really happened and she cuts ties with him entirely. When Joel is killed, that affected her because she wasted all this time ignoring and resenting him. Guilt. This is what makes Ellie starting this revenge story.
Later at the farm, Tommy comes to visit her and he’s a broken man, telling Ellie that Abby is still alive without considering that she has PTSD. He wants her to avenge his brother. This is a disturbing powerful scene thanks to the acting and the writing.
I do think TLOU2 is a condemnation of violence, but not in a cheesy one-dimensional way. The game wants you to feel bad for what you’ve done but it also wants to piss you off.
Ring Team
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@Mikey
That’s much more understandable. I think the first game was more consistent, but the second game was more unpredictable, like a roller coaster. It’s one of the reasons why I like the second game more than the first one, even though I know people will still be mad at the game.
Mikey
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Prince of Skrees
@Ring Team
Yeah.
Anyways, on the topic of Paper Mario, people hate the new ones (with the exception of Origami King) because the stories are crap, the humor is way more forced and unfunny, it lost the charm, and the combat is unfun. It went from an RPG to yet another generic Mario spinoff with dumb gimmicks.
Meanlucario
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
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Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
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Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
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My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

Is that a 5*?
@Ring Team
Very few people liked Starlight’s backstory, no idea about the others (though I have heard that AC stop caring for its own story a long time ago and Valhalla is just chasing popular RPG tropes like cheap and easy “romance” and exp boosters you pay real-life cash for if quest-farming isn’t your thing).
Cyborg_pony
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition
Thread Starter - Started a thread with over 100 pages

@Ring Team
It didn’t need to exist. The first game ended ambiguously and the whole story was grey, is it worth risking humanity over a single person? Is it worth killing a single girl for the possibility of saving humanity? At the end of TLOU2 Ellie is about to kill Abby but stops because she remembered Joel for some reason
You can’t tell me it’s a well written story. Especially when it turns out that the doctor you killed was her father, they just pulled that out of their asses.
The DLC Story for the first was a sign of things to come. It was entirely meaningless and cumulated into a loli lesbian fanfiction which turned into “I hate my step-dad for saving my life, I’m going to shirk my responsibilities the settlement of a post-apocalypse entrusted me with to get high and bang my girlfriend. Oh my dad I hated recently died, if only there was something I could have done. Bigot sandwiches!”
The fact that Joel slaughters pretty much everyone there, but somehow missed Abby.(probably looking for steroids) is another plothole people really overlook. Joel abruptly giving out his name to someone he just met, the fact she just believed it was THE Joel, and not some random other guy. What if she had murdered another Joel that turned out to be the wrong one or worse off, has gone on a Joel killing spree, slaughtering people that had nothing to do with her vendetta and just kept going? Many of Ellie’s friends are picked off easily, to the point they were just bullet fodder. Most forget it was delayed for rewrites, one being Ellie’s GF was supposed to knocked off during another run-in, as well as Ellie at the end because she was overpowered by the the juggernaut that is Abby.
Druckman didn’t care about the fans of the game or even telling a good story. He road on the popularity and believed they were suckers to just buy it outright on name alone and laugh all the way to the bank.
Meanlucario
Princess of Love - Extra special version for those who participated in the Canterlot Wedding 10th anniversary event by contributing art.
Elements of Harmony - Had an OC in the 2022 Community Collab
Non-Fungible Trixie -
Kinship Through Differences - Celebrated the 11th anniversary of MLP:FIM!
Verified Pegasus - Show us your gorgeous wings!
Preenhub - We all know what you were up to this evening~
Twinkling Balloon - Took part in the 2021 community collab.
Ten years of changes - Celebrated the 10th anniversary of MLP:FiM!
Happy Derpy! - For site supporters
My Little Pony - 1992 Edition

Is that a 5*?
I seem to either love (Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2) or hate (Fallout 2 and currently Baldur’s Gate 2) the sequels of RPGs at this point. Not sure why.
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