Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Background Pony #1D40
@The Smiling Pony
I have specifically written “Conservatism (in its actual meaning, not American meaning)” because I suspected this reaction from Americans, whose idea of conservatism is police beating Black people and idea of fascism is mask mandates.
Fascism is palingenetic. It criticizes the current state of affairs as rotten, decadent or evil in some other way. It proposes a rebirth, revolution, renewal, return to some mythic “old glory” as a solution. (MAGA, anyone?) It fights established structures of power and seeks to destroy or subjugate them.
Conservatism is satisfied with status quo, it seeks to preserve it, whatever that status quo is. It opposes changes, seeks to preserve old institutions.
If you don’t see the distinction, please read more about actual fascism. You need to be able to spot it if you want to oppose it. How can you fight your enemies if you cannot even tell them from each other?
Background Pony #1D40
@Meanlucario
I am not talking about USA. I was talking about the image from @Violet Rose in The Rain’s post. I disagreed with that definition and pointed at better ones. Then @AaronMk pointed out an another definition, I disagreed with him, @The Smiling Pony disagreed with something in my post… It was a parallel discussion about fascism. It had nothing to do with USA in particular.
And even when talking about USA, it isn’t good to use weird definitions. It muddles the discussion when you define “conservatists” as “GOP”, “leftists” as “Democratic party”, or “socialism” as “welfare”. Similarly, Americans might define “republic” and “democracy” in such a way that they seem polar opposites, but they are not and democratic republics happily exist. (Yes, I had to explain to Americans that “democratic republic” is not an oxymoron.)
The Smiling Pony
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( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡° )
submission of institutions to the Leader, while conservatism resists change and tries to preserve traditional structures.
Ah yes, the monarchists and theocrats of varies kinds all over the world that want to submit the people and country to their chosen leader aren’t actually conservative at all! The ones that want to see fall of parliamentary democracies and a return to petty dictatorships, kingdoms, and theocracies aren’t conservative, somehow.
Your definition of “conservatives” and the absurdity of the statement that they’re by definition opposed to fascism is hilarious. Popular definitions of fascism or conservatism might be reductionist, but yours are just comical.
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@CaptainXtra
I wonder how racist cops get their jobs. I could imagine this on a job posting:
“Are you a racist? Can’t find work anywhere because of your racism? Then become a police officer with your local police department! Great pay and benefits for things like generating revenue from everyday drivers, beating the shit out of peaceful protesters, and shooting unarmed black people.”
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@The Smiling Pony
Trying to reimpose old social structures is more properly deemed “reactionary”, not “conservative”. They’re both usually associated with the right wing, but one is a lot more moderate and the other a lot less so. Unfortunately, because of that similarity, conservatives in too many times and places have tolerated reactionary movements up to the point where they themselves end up against the wall.
(Incidentally, it shows how skewed America is when the notionally center-left party is the conservative party by any reasonable definition, while the notionally center-right party has gone completely fucking bonkers.)
Dustcan
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I went to college to be a police officer. It didn’t work out, but I can tell you the requirements are not a joke and actually moderately high.
It’s just that ultimately short. A few years college for the generalized learning of the law to let you go anywhere in the Criminal Justice field, with only an average of 6 months academy training to be a Peace Officer specifically.
It’s that last point that’s the stickler. 6 months and you get a badge, a gun, a pat on the back and near unlimited license to kill. Most other nation’s require years of police specific training to instill the right skills and mindset while for the most part here in America you just need to be fit enough to complete an obstacle course.
And yes police unionization means you have an absurd level of protection even when you screw up. “Get fired from one station, get hired next town over” is not a meme, it’s how the police employment typically works because of it. The one union in the country that’s not been gutted into impotency and it just happens to be the one that’s harmful.
Background Pony #1D40
@The Smiling Pony
I think you are either misunderstanding my posts or have some unusual definitions of conservatism or fascism. Perhaps you are reducing conservatism to religion and social views? Or understand conservatism or fascism to be whatever Republicans are doing?
Monarchies and theocracies are conservative. I’m not sure why do you think I believe otherwise. Sure, they have leaders, but it’s not the same as the fascist Leader. A king claims divine rule or noble ancestors, a dictator claims might makes right, a religious leader claims to follow the will of God/gods. But a fascist leader claims to embody the will of the people and the fascist ideals (like the cult of action without thinking). Kings and dictators want you to pay taxes and know your place. Religious rulers want you to obey the rules of their religion. A fascist leader wants you to be a fascist and obey their commands without thinking.
I also never said that conservatives (people with many conservative ideas) are opposed to fascism, but that conservatism is opposed to it. Conservatism and fascism are at odds with each other. But fascism is not opposed to people with conservative ideas, it tries to attract and draw them in. It often looks attractive to them, so many of them do not oppose it. It’s designed to appeal to masses, in big part to conservatives. It uses syncretism, appeals to past, agrees with some conservative ideas. But then it promotes fascist ideas in those people. Ideas of change, revolution, struggle against “decadence” of the existing order. Ideas of violence, fight, heroism in death for the leader. Those ideas are not conservative.
Uprooting an established parliamentary democracy in favor of a new leader (not previous king who was temporarily in exile or something, but a new ruler) is a revolution. Revolution is not a conservative act by definition. Revolutionaries might have some conservative views, but they also need to have some kind of revolutionary views. Otherwise, they wouldn’t do it.
And it’s worth remembering that people can follow multiple ideologies at the same time, even opposing ones. It doesn’t have to make sense to others. Just because someone has some conservative and some revolutionary views, doesn’t mean that conservatism is revolutionary.
YourPalContrail
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Happy independence day to all my American friends here. happy treason day to my UK friends
I know we have our disagreement but remember what binds us all together this holiday ^^
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@CaptainXtra
Oh right. Most people don’t know MK Ultra wasn’t actually anything like the movies portray but a really stupid failed program where Uncle Sam thought giving people LSD would induce mind control. Went about as well as you’d think and they had to burn evidence of their crimes.
@Goku Black
Being born as slave catchers and union busters helps.
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