Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
That’s not a norm. I don’t think you realize what “norm” means.

@Meanlucario
I know what a norm is. I was being flexible with my usage of the term, but then, so were you.

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
Not nearly as much as you are.

@Meanlucario
“The USA is built on immigration” isn’t a norm, it’s an interpretation of historical facts.

And even if it were a norm, that wouldn’t make it good.

Perhaps people should explain to HHH why even if a country has an absolute moral right to control immigration, the sensible thing to do with it would be to encourage inflow?

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
The USA was “founded” by Europeans, who live across the ocean. How do they not count as immigrants?

@Latecomer
I doubt he cares.

@Vivace
Well maybe I wanna know.

@Meanlucario
I feel like immigrants and settlers are two different things. I could be wrong about that. But the fact that something has happened in the past isn’t a reason for why it needs to continue.

@Vivace
If it involves economics, those are usually the arguments that Zincy tends to make on this subject.

I can’t really say that he’s wrong, but economics aren’t the only thing that matter, and in any case, in my more pessimistic moments, I think climate change is going to totally upend our current conception of economic prosperity anyway.

@Latecomer
Maybe you have an argument that’s different than what’s already been mentioned?

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
Okay but British Colonials weren’t settlers because people were already here.

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
What does climate change have to do with immigration? And yes, they were immigrants. There were already people here when they immigrated to North America.

@Mikey
Considering what happened to them, couldn’t that be be an argument for aggressively resisting immigration?

@Latecomer
I think that should be a learning experience about the dangers of not treating those of other groups as people.

I feel like we need a philosopher or genealogist to explain when an immigrant becomes a native. Or linguist.

Climate change is/will a big reason for immigration.

When a region stops being hospitable people move.

@Meanlucario
It doesn’t relate to immigration directly, but users like Zincy still seem to be thinking in terms of labor shortages and the GDP. Climate change is going to make those things look quaint if it arrives in earnest. My point is that economics aren’t always the most important thing in the world, and thinking that they are is kind of why we’re in this situation to begin with.

@Meanlucario
Or to be cautious of accepting immigrants in the first place.

Climate change will definitely lead to a refugee crisis, yes, which it’s a big part of why it needs to be addressed, and why we need green energy.

@Dustcan
Ah. So instead of a cruel goverment, it’s a cruel environment.

More or less.

Like, everyone knows the closer to the equator you are the hotter it gets. Now factor in how climate change continues to make the world as a whole hotter. After a certain point those living on the equator will migrate north/south to cooler regions.

And that’s just the simplest scenario. Rising water levels from climate change will mean people living in coastal regions will have to migrate further in-land, climate change devastating food chains will alter food availability, etc.

@HeadlessHorselessHorseman
It’s only a cautionary tale for those who want to eliminate it rather than learn from past mistakes (the colonist treating the natives like shit I mean).

@Meanlucario
You can think the treatment of the Indians was exceptionally bad and still believe immigration is also bad on the whole.

So today I was talking with a friend in the geek community about things that were really bothering me, such as the recent mass shooting in Buffalo, the attacks on LGBT people and women, and the whole war in Ukraine. As I kind of expected, I got the whole mantra about how there was nothing that could be done about it. I ended up feeling worse knowing that he felt this way. If this is how the mast majority of Americans think, I’m even more compelled to kill myself because I’d have no chance of escaping the terrible environment I’m in. Granted I’m not sure if what I just posted belongs here or in the depression thread, but I just thought I’d share because it’s really taking a toll on my sanity.

Hey if it makes you feel better we have made massive strides in modern times! LGBT acceptance is FAR better than it was in the 90’s and early 2000’s when I grew up. Even larger events like climate change has shown progress in a positive direction. while it is easy to get sucked into the doom and gloom it is important to see objectively how good we have it, and how we progressed as a society

And before anyone brings up why we haven’t talk about the mass shooting at a church Orange County, California? Keep in mind, while that is too is being seen as a hate crime considering Taiwanese Church and was carried out by 68-year old man who is a Chinese Immigrant, it is bad, however; the mass shooting in Buffalo, New York is way worse in comparison.

@YourPalContrail
I can see where you’re coming from, but even so, the past year or two has been especially grim. Florida went ahead with its “Don’t Say Gay” bill, while Texas and other states have clamped down on abortion and voting rights. Blacks are still being gunned down by the cops and any attempts at left-wing protests are violently suppressed. Saying the 2020s are better compared to previous decades might hold some truth (for one the draft no longer exists), but far too often, it trivializes the very real danger that the conservatives and libertarians pose to the well-being of people like me.

@NitroFury
I am fully aware of that incident as well. If anything it makes the whole ordeal even worse because it only cements the reality that mass shootings can happen anywhere and anytime in the US and the majority of its citizens are okay with it.

There are so many fucking mass shootings I’m considering just wearing a bulletproof vest whenever I go out now

the parental rights in education is a bunch of hoopla over very little. It was written to protect trans people after a child tragically killed themselves because they where questioning their identity and they felt isolated. Also some speculation on my part, it could cut down on resentment in years to come. Police shootings have decreased drastically over the years, while I personally think there is more progress to be made, I still think it’s important to look back at what we came from and see where we can improve today. and all of this is not to trivialize sins today, rather to pull yourself out of a doomed mindset.