Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Jolliapplegirl
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@The Smiling Pony  
That’s not an excuse for violence. Peaceful methods have changed things for the better. It’s not like nothing has changed since the civil war. It’s all small steps toward a better world but how many people on the opposing side are going to see vandalism and the like and say ‘oh, yeah, that’s fine. I’ll totally be on your side now that you burned a car in the streets.’ There is a reason we commemorate peaceful protests throughout history. It’s respectable and people admire the strength in character it takes to do such a thing. Violence is the easy solution and should be a last resort. And trust me, we aren’t there yet. There are still nonviolent methods that could be used at this point.
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@jolliapplegirl  
How many more people have to be murdered while society takes “small steps forward” in order to not make the establishment uncomfortable? Because that’s the cost of doing things “peacefully”.
silbasa
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@jolliapplegirl  
So nice to see common sense. Reason should prevail, always.
 
 
@The Smiling Pony  
Stop doing crimes. Do not attract the attention of law enforcement. Nobody cares about x number of white people gunned down, why? Because they were commiting crimes! A black person does something (Bar Floyd, that one is murder.) and the city burns. Social media hyping it up. It needs to stop.
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Stop doing crimes
 
full
 
This shit doesn’t happen in other (supposedly) civilized countries. Not Canada, not the EU, not Australia or Japan or hell even Russia… US police seem to be really proficient at killing people before they can face any sort of real justice or even confirmation they’re a criminal at all.
 
 
that one is murder
And that one and that one and that other one and also that one and…
 
But hey, as a quick example, go ahead and let us all know what crime Breonna Taylor was committing while she was sleeping in her own home and the police decided to massacre her, an EMT, after getting the wrong address for a no-warning assault raid.
 
 
Anyway, it’s really fucking bizarre seeing people get mad at statues getting toppled or stores getting looted but stay completely silent when there’s news about the summary execution of people. Really weird.
silbasa
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@The Smiling Pony  
It is. Imagine how important those statues were after the war for half the nation, to build some unity again after a civil war that tore the nation apart. Both sides were at least in some fashion recognized. Now the gathering narrative is failing and the US is in trouble.
 
Its been well established by now in this thread that US law enforcment is dangerous. Its quality varies from place to place greatly. But still, the addage will work in most cases. Dont do crime and you will not get their attention!
 
Is the reason they freak out when arrested the fact that they are already multiple offenders knowing they will go away for a long time making a last ditch effort not to?
Jolliapplegirl
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@The Smiling Pony  
People die every day that you never hear about. So many who suffered injustice yet don’t even get an honorable mention let alone a movement. Think of all the cop killings you never hear about because the skin tone is inconvenient. If you want reforms, there is no one disagreeing but when there are riots in the streets and places being robbed, you get push back because, shocker to the world, people don’t like their stuff being destroyed. It’s not about the establishment, it’s about normal people going about their everyday lives only to wake up one day and find their business burned down by the so-called heroes I assume you support.
 
To make it easier, put yourself in the position of someones whose livelihood has been looted or destroyed by the violence you advocate for. Is there anything someone could say that would make you look at the charred remains of something you put who knows how much time, effort and money into and say “yeah, that’s fine.”
Ebalosus
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@silbasa
 
>don’t do crime
 
Nigh impossible to do, given the volume of laws on the books. Remind me again of what they got Capone on again…
silbasa
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@Ebalosus  
They are accused of beeing just that. In England, France and Sweden and so on. Riots happens there as well. But less guns are commonly used and the punishments so lax they do not care, get arrested and go on reoffending.
Jolliapplegirl
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Anyway, it’s really fucking bizarre seeing people get mad at statues getting toppled or stores getting looted but stay completely silent when there’s news about the summary execution of people. Really weird.

 
I’m against statues being torn down because its wrong to vandalize, especially historic monuments as they are there for a reason. Not just to commemorate people but so that the people in the present and future never forget what came before. Sure, history isn’t sunshine and roses but why should that mean we destroy it? How will people know what not to do if we try and sanitize the past?
 
Also, why is it shocking that people have an issue with their livelihoods being destroyed? How is that strange? Put yourself in their shoes and tell me you wouldn’t be upset that your businss has been ransacked. Does the fact that someone else suffered mean you, an innocent bystander, has to suffer too?
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@silbasa  
Summary executions are unconstitutional and they are illegal. Police are not executioners.
 
@jolliapplegirl  
Did you know that police in the US are not even required to report when someone dies in their custody? The number of people dying that you don’t hear about is terrible. People destroying businesses are terrible. People losing their jobs and their livelihoods are terrible.
 
What does that have to do with someone who is advocating for summary executions?
silbasa
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@Ebalosus  
Wut? They got him on tax law no? Floyd was wandering around handing out fake 20 dollar bills… They know what they are doing is illegal but still do it! Yes US law enforment may need tweaking but I do not excuse crime!
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Good news everypony  
Constitutional council deemed the AVIA law unconstitutional, a law that forced to silence “hatespeech” and “dissident motivations” on the internet nad social networks has been cancelled.
 
When you read the text of law and their definition of hatespeech you know this could have been not more different than a dictatorship.
 
@silbasa  
exactly, we used to have death penalty before. for major crimes: murders essentially.  
Since, it’s not kjust an abolition of death penalty, but a reduction of all other penalties. Now you can make 24 or 48 hours of jail ( garde à vue ) for agresssing someone and get out free. Because the judges are always saying “it’s okay” in the end. So that’s not a state of justice.
 
I could break the law and become a criminal if I wanted, what would I risk? Dealing drugs, intoxicating young people into becoming zombies. Stealing others. If I get caught I would not risk prison. Maybe a fine and cry that I’m sorry to a red judge “I’m poor and society forced me to be violent, I have no solution in liiife~” and get back home.  
But I don’t want to.
Ebalosus
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@silbasa
 
Very few people have been shot, despite the tensions, so guns have little to nothing to do with it. Wouldn’t the tough sentences that the US has deter the reaction we’re seeing?
silbasa
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@Ebalosus  
I dont know. Black americans are stuck in an eternal victim narrative they refuse to move away from. It must be beneficial to keep perpetuating it. And many people died in those riots to. For what I cannot say.
Jolliapplegirl
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@Derpy Whooves  
I don’t think that’s what Silbasa is saying though. I can’t speak for them but so far, I don’t see that being their point.
 
As for the first part, I didn’t know that. That’s definitely terrible and I’m all for reform so that people suffer less. My only point was that I’m not for violence, regardless of the reason for it. If it’s a last resort, I can go along with it but never as a first response. Thats my concern with Smiling pony.
Ebalosus
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@silbasa
 
I excuse victimless crimes for the most part, due to the lack of victims (duh!). If someone want to own SBRs with auto sears and suppressors without paying the ATF, I have no problem with that.
 
@Patachu
 
Hopefully they do the same here, but it probably would take ACT being elected outright, or at least playing kingmaker like what NZF did in 2017.
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@silbasa  
Lee himself was adamantly opposed to statues.
 
The war, hell, the confederacy itself, barely lasted a few years. It was not some “long lasting” thing until people decided to make it so by identifying with treasonous loser racists. The vast majority of statues and flags and other symbols erected to these traitorous losers came up during the early 20th century, long after the civil war, with the clear intent to promote racism as a way of life and an identity opposed to any sort of integration or civil rights movement.
 
Its been well established by now in this thread that US law enforcment is dangerous.
And apparently you don’t want to do anything about it.
 
 
@jolliapplegirl  
Cool cool, people die all the time. But unless there’s a response to them, no one gives a shit. If George Floyd’s murder had just lead to a couple of peaceful concentrations in a street corner, it’d all be last month’s news, and the status quo would remain unchallenged yet again for the millionth time. Only because things have been ugly, uncomfortable, even affected other people have people with blinders on realized that maybe, just maybe, something ain’t right.
 
 
@silbasa  
And yet somehow in those terrible countries where justice is “so lax” the murder rage, violent crime rate, hell, rate of any crime in general is orders of magnitude below those of the US and all the various militarized police forces.
silbasa
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Small countries with homogenuos populations. This kind of immigration is a recent thing in Europe. And wherever enough immigrants come, same problems as in the US. Crime skyrockets and social problems ensue.
 
A thing I have observed as I get older is that change takes time. Reform is happening but not overnight. Do this to fast and something critical breaks. Use common sense and not Twitter slogans.
Ebalosus
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@The Smiling Pony
 
It’s almost as if the war on drugs, ‘broken windows,’ civil asset forfeiture, and three-strikes are terrible ideas in practice, and are felt disproportionately by minorities and poor people.
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@silbasa  
No one wants to kill anyone else, apart some people. Imagine if you’re a cop. If a criminal is armed, present a danger to you or others, the dilemma, either you got to shoot him to prevent someone innocent getting killed, either you let go away a potential murderer.  
There should be no moral questioning but “Am I here to obey laws or to defend lifes, including others or mine”
 
The ratio of force used should be the same. Suspect is unarmed? Don’t use it. Suspect’s armed? Use it.
 
 
@jolliapplegirl  
It should always be a last resort and i’m sure in many cases it is.
 
Recently when there’s chechens versus muslims in Dijon, you literally have cops avoiding contact with armed militias, they have tazers and 9mm handguns, at best. In front of them, they have kalashnikovs and HK’s. The cops are unable to fight that!
 
 
@Ebalosus  
The only goal for any government is to control discussion and information, including, if not, especially on the internet.
 
@The Smiling Pony  
if you’re a cop, if you’re armed, if you see a guy just killing even one person in front of you, and that guy being armed can’t be stopped, shoot him. Fuck that “but the law” optic. What counts is on the terrain.
 
You will have thousands of activists, protests saying you gave the armed guy no chance, you will get served «he was young and lost» «Guns are the problem» «When you kill a murderer you become one» «He should have got a trial» that’s exxagerated I bet but here that’s what happens when a cop stop a violent crime from happening.
 
I say let’s shoot the motherfucker.
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