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Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

YourPalContrail
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@Beth
I think you need to stop listening to NRA propaganda. By that logic, we are born with guns. We are not. Guns aren’t natural, and trying to claim otherwise shows that you are way too out-of-touch with reality to be taken seriously on the topic.
thats not the point they are trying to get to. Every animal has the right to defend themselves whether it’s with horns, claws, or any other means to fend off an attacker. Can we agree on that?
the Humans don’t have claws or horns, what sets is apart is that we can use our brains to make tools to allow us to defend ourselves or hunt animals with. this is a right in nature that far predates government. Because this ability to bear arms for self defense it would be immoral.
Meanlucario
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Cool Spook
@YourPalContrail
Humans aren’t natural. We have rejected nature time and time again. To use nature as an excuse to hoard tools of death and destruction is laughable at best. Other primates don’t have much in terms of “natural weapons,” but they get by pretty well without guns.
YourPalContrail
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nature isn’t an excuse it’s just for what we call “natural rights” this what the founders referred to being “endowed by their creator with”
also primates do use natural weapons all the time. I think the most famous is by chimpanzees famously sited by Jane Goodall.
Meanlucario
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Cool Spook
@YourPalContrail
No, it’s being used as an excuse. Don’t act like you care about what’s “natural” unless you actually dive into the animal kingdom and see what nature is actually like. Trust me, it’s not nearly as pro-gun as you fantasize it to be.
There’s a canyon between a tool and a gun.
YourPalContrail
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let’s just take a step back and sort of go to the root of it all cause i think we can sort of come togetherif we both examine this on a more fundamental level. do animals have a right to use claws horns and hooves to defend themselves?
Beth
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Unemployed Brendon
@Meanlucario
Nature doesn’t just mean flowers and monkeys. Nature refers to an inescapable force, it refers to laws followed by every species and individual. Nature means every force you take away will be replaced with another force that you don’t have control of. Police brutality exists, but if police disappeared, disorganized gunmen are going to take their place. If industrial manufactured guns disappear, 3d printed ghost guns are going to take their place.
I am all for extending gun control. I signed my own gun rights away for one. However when trying to control guns you have to consider the natural consequences. Japan has pulled off decent gun control, and one of the last notable gun crimes was done with makeshift guns barely fit to survive more than one target, you couldn’t do a sandy hook shooting with them.
Ghost guns are where things get complicated, and we’re you’ll see the most people using ‘nature’ as an excuse. It is possible to print fully automatic weapons that can survive sustained fire, and I couldn’t tell you what should be done about this.
A whole species choosing to disarm themselves is not a natural occurrence, this simply isn’t going to happen.
Other primates brutally kill each other over mating, and organize attacks on other tribes. I’m pretty sure they live more violent lives than we do. I don’t think it matters if they use weapons. Humans have way better lives than primates, and none of this infrastructure would exists without weapons.
Meanlucario
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Cool Spook
@Beth
I’m saying that nature is full of parasites, deception and cruelty. And claws are for offense or gather food, not defense like you think. In nature, weapons are used for killing, not self defense, and plenty of animals don’t even bother and leech off of others. Nature goes against guns because of how hostile it is.
Beth
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Unemployed Brendon
@Meanlucario
“I’m saying that nature is full of parasites, deception and cruelty.”
I can sustain myself on these words for a long time. Sweet blackpill truth.
Offense and defense in nature is often confusing. A moose will harass and maul people, but only because the moose thinks it’s getting followed. Sometimes horned animals try to gore, stomp or clock out a predator. Gorrillas are actually quite defensive because they have the strength they can afford to be, so they avoid looking each other in the eyes to avoid challenges.
“in nature weapons are used for killing”
“nature goes against guns because how hostile it is”
I thought this was contradictory at first but I get what you’re saying, guns can be an overpowering force in the animal kingdom, just like an invasive species. Guns might have to be controlled like an invasive species, like an animal that’s too good at killing everything around it.
Natry
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Constant Lurker
@Meanlucario
Claws totally can be used for self-defense. When a crab pinches a human’s foot with its’ claw, it’s not planning on turning the human into a meal. Logically, if a clawed animal is attacked by another animal it has to defend itself with something, why wouldn’t it use claws for self-defense?
Beth
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Unemployed Brendon
We can make ghost guns illegal, unless they contain a registered component that requires a background check to obtain.
Most murder is done impulsively to a single target, with handguns being responsible for most murder.
Rifles are hard to hide, they’re hard to get rid of, and they make you a visible target/criminal from very far away, and very rarely someone who does not fear death uses one to attack multiple targets.
Even though we hear the most about mass shootings, personal shootings are far more common. So we should be more worried about concealable handguns than the rifles people use for home defense, hunting, and anti-occupation purposes.
A lot of people think a handgun is reasonable defense, and a rifle is excessive, but the concealability of a pistol makes it way more likely to escalate a situation. When guns are easy to see and hard to hide situations diffuse easier. A rifle is more likely to penetrate walls, and hurt someone else, so i’m not saying they’re magically toys either.
Background Pony #D478
“Taking away a man’s gun is like declawing a cat.” Humans are the most pathetic animals in the animal kingdom.
Background Pony #D478
and don’t give me that intelligence bullshit. Look where that’s gotten us.
Beth
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Unemployed Brendon
@Background Pony #D478
“Humans are the most pathetic animals in the animal kingdom.”
Nature rewards foulplay. Gorrillas don’t even look each other in the eye before they strike, they pretend not to notice you.
@Background Pony #D478
Humans have gotten just about as far as you see, don’t know what to say. Intelligence is a useless, abstract metric, except metric would mean somethings actually being measured.
YourPalContrail
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and don’t give me that intelligence bullshit. Look where that’s gotten us.
Exactly, look where that’s gotten us. We as a species used our brains to allow us amazing things. we build sky scrapers, fly planes… hell we’ve walked on the moon. name one other animal that has done that.
Background Pony #1F81
Of course the far-right “freeze peach” people are siding with Alex Jones in the trial
Beth
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Unemployed Brendon
@Background Pony #D478
You’re talking about replacing the natural world that actually came to be with a fictional idea that has no physical basis.
Can you imagine a world without guns? Sometimes it feels like I’m the only one able to, and i got to tell you, it’s still pretty brutal.
CaptainXtra

PUNCH A FASCIST!
Can you imagine a world without guns?
Yes, it’s as utterly stupid as it sounds and I’m willing to bet that the Dev behind this decision is an incredibly pretentious as fuck anti-gun dude.
No guns, in a goddamn zombie outbreak.
Normally I’m all for that in real life but in a game you can go wild with guns.
Anyway, Humanity will always find a way to create ranged weapons as long as they have resources to exploit but that doesn’t mean we can’t be reasonable with how we use said creations.

Meanwhile in News Related to Abortion:
Turds, every last one of them.
MethidMan
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See there’s the fundamental misunderstanding. Rights are not granted by law or custom. they are universal, fundamental and inalienable
…Do I really have to bring up George Carlin again?
 
Boy, everyone in this country is running around yammering about their fuckin’ rights. “I have a right, you have no right, we have a right.”
Folks, I hate to spoil your fun, but…there’s no such thing as rights, okay? They’re imaginary. We made ‘em up. Like the boogie man, the Three Little Pigs, Pinocchio, Mother Goose, shit like that. Rights are an idea. They’re just imaginary. They’re a cute idea. Cute. But that’s all. Cute…and fictional. But if you think you do have rights, let me ask you this, where do they come from? People say, “Well, they come from God. They’re God-given rights.” Awww fuck, here we go again…here we go again.
The God excuse, the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument, “It came from God.” Anything we can’t describe must have come from God. Personally folks, I believe that if your rights came from God, he would’ve given you the right for some food every day, and he would’ve given you the right to a roof over your head. GOD would’ve been looking out for ya. You know that?
He wouldn’t have been worried making sure you have a gun so you can get drunk on Sunday night and kill your girlfriend’s parents.
But let’s say it’s true. Let’s say God gave us these rights. Why would he give us a certain number of rights?
The Bill of Rights of this country has 10 stipulations. Okay…10 rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week, because we’ve had to amend the bill of rights an additional 17 times. So God forgot a couple of things, like…SLAVERY. Just fuckin’ slipped his mind.
But let’s say…let’s say God gave us the original 10. He gave the British 13. The British Bill of Rights has 13 stipulations. The Germans have 29, the Belgians have 25, the Swedish have only 6, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a fuckin’ goddamn god-given deal is that!?…NO RIGHTS AT ALL!? Why would God give different people in different countries a different number of different rights? Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn’t sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning. Sounds more like one group trying to control another group. In other words…business as usual in America.
Now, if you think you do have rights, one last assignment for ya: next time you’re at the computer get on the Internet, go to Wikipedia. When you get to Wikipedia, in the search field for Wikipedia, I want you to type in, “Japanese-Americans 1942” and you’ll find out all about your precious fucking rights, okay? Alright. You know about it.
In 1942 there were 110,000 Japanese-American citizens, in good standing, law abiding people, who were thrown into internment camps simply because their parents were born in the wrong country. That’s all they did wrong. They had no right to a lawyer, no right to a fair trial, no right to a jury of their peers, no right to due process of any kind. The only right they had was…right this way! Into the internment camps.
Just when these American citizens needed their rights the most…their government took them away. And rights aren’t rights if someone can take em away. They’re privileges. That’s all we’ve ever had in this country is a bill of TEMPORARY privileges; and if you read the news, even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter, and shorter, and shorter.
Yup, sooner or later the people in this country are going to realize the government doesn’t give a fuck about them. The government doesn’t care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply doesn’t give a fuck about you. It’s interested in it’s own power. That’s the only thing…keeping it, and expanding wherever possible.
Personally when it comes to rights, I think one of two things is true: I think either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all. Personally I lean toward unlimited rights. I feel, for instance, I have the right to do anything I please, but if I do something you don’t like, I think you have the right to kill me. So where are you going to find a fairer fuckin’ deal than that?
So the next time some asshole says “I have a right to my opinion”, you say “Oh yeah? Well I have a right to my opinion, and my opinion is that you have no right to your opinion”. Then shoot the fuck and walk away.
YourPalContrail
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As funny as that is its just flawed. Some people believe that right come from God yes, but I don’t think belief in some deity is nessary to also understand rights, clearly because I don’t believe in a God. To understand natural rights think of man in nature. He can talk freely without anyone interfereing. He can use rocks and sticks to protect himself. He can build a shelter or hunt and is entitled to the fruits of his labor.. it’s been a while since I’ve read good Ole John Locke.
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