Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

Background Pony #C9EE
Um, no? Because that’s not how any of this works, you still have to contribute to society, but even if you can’t that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be stripped of your rights to basic human needs. Even if you’re poor and have no money you should still be allowed to be fed. We waste so much food it’s unreal, especially with how much of that could go to people who need it.
Ok, now I think I see where the disconnect between us is, it’s around how we define a human right. What I and the other poster are referring to as human rights are the rights that are intrinsic to you being a human being and being alive. That alone means you have these rights. For example in the quote above contributing to society would not be necessary if the food in our example was a human right. You would be due that food by the very nature of you being alive, and you would not need to contribute anything. Now you do have a human right to actually do what’s need to get that food, so you can’t be locked up in a box and left to starve, that would be a violation of your human rights.
What, you’re talking taxpayer money? Money going towards paying hospital workers, doctors, nurses, and equipment to make the hospital is running effectively and well enough to maker sure everyone, including you, can continue living? I don’t know how much more simple I have to make this. Being able to fucking live should be a human right
Given the government wastes so much taxpayer money on shit that helps no one, what’s wrong with putting that towards things that will help everyone, including me?
Extending that logic here, taxpayer money is everyone else’s money. So the argument would have to be that by merely being alive you have a right to their property. Even if their was no government, you would have a right to their money. This is because you are alive and human, having a government or not doesn’t change this. Even if you were the last person alive, you would have a right to their money by virtue of existing, which makes no sense since you’re the last person alive.
That’s what I, and I am assuming Contrail, mean by human rights. I think what you’re talking about is a legal right to these things, so the government should provide healthcare and as a citizen you should have a legal right to take advantage of that.
Background Pony #6954
Trump is like someone combined the bigotry of Archie Bunker with the delusions of intelligence of Cliff Clavin.
Violet Rose in The Rain
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What’s your actual point? That fat shaming should still be a thing?
It really doesn’t matter how much you whine about how, “*It shouldn’t be the only method since there are others!” Which implies that it’s still a method. I’m saying that it shouldn’t be a thing.
@silbasa
Super cute how you lay the blame for obesity on Twitter nobodies and conveniently forget how much shit conservatives gave Obama for pushing for healthier meals for kids, or various left-leaning city and local governments for subsidizing healthy foods, taxing unhealthy foods, promoting food education, food stamps and school meal plans, etc.
Nah, everything is always the fault of those damn (obviously leftist) activists on twitter!
What a fucking joke.
Thanks. It’s saying a lot silbasa refuses to address this and just dashed off.
Hi, new favourite Background Pony. It’s useless trying to talk to Hollowfox.
And I can’t remember a time when Captain Xtra actually contributed to a conversation instead of just butting in with a topic nobody else seems to be interested in.
Background Pony #C9EE
The best solution is the hardest solution, it’s creating a sort of social expectation that you shouldn’t be obese. This way people don’t necessarily feel personally attacked by being fat, more that they are letting themselves down and feel shame. Of course something of that scale is extremely difficult to actually do, but I think a good step is shedding this idea that eating healthy is a difficult goal, or that it is super expensive to do so. Additionally I know a lot of people who have a hard time with portion sizes due to how they were raised, you don’t waste food. So when you do order food and get a giant portion people feel shame if they throw some away, so instead they eat too much. I’m sure plenty of Americans here know the “Their are starving kids in Africa” line.
@Background Human
That’s a meaningless point, you could argue the same thing in our current world full of people if you really wanted to. It’s a philosophical discussion based around where our rights come from and why we should recognize some as being intrinsic to us as humans.
Violet Rose in The Rain
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@Kiryu-Chan
I don’t think you get what I mean. I’m not placing any judgement on your scenario, I’m saying it’s not a right. In order to gain access to that right you would need to have a right to someone elses property, how is that a human right? I mean every day you choose between continuing to live or to die, does that make food a human right? Do you have a human right to 2000 calories a day?
So what you’re saying is you shouldn’t have gotten:
  • 18 years of being raised for free,
  • 12 years of schooling,
  • Talking about all those meals that adds up,
  • What about having to use the libraries?
  • Police or fire departments?
  • Going to public parks, lakes or rivers, et cetera?
it’s creating a sort of social expectation that you shouldn’t be obese.
Either you’re coming at me in bad faith or you’re really not noticing how society just assumes every single user of their services is fit and able-bodied.
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In an ideal Marxist or socialist country, how would it handle rising prices due to supply chain disruptions?
I hope it will do better than capitalist hellholes who don’t care about the poor for the sake of some corporate tyrants and billionaires.
Background Pony #C9EE
@Violet Rose in The Rain
“So what you’re saying is you shouldn’t have gotten:
18 years of being raised for free,
12 years of schooling,
Talking about all those meals that adds up,
What about having to use the libraries?
Police or fire departments?
Going to public parks, lakes or rivers, et cetera?”
Ok, you’re conflating things people agree and should receive with things that are a human right. See my post here to get what I mean. You can support all of those things without defining them as human rights.
“Either you’re coming at me in bad faith or you’re really not noticing how society just assumes every single user of their services is fit and able-bodied.”
Well I would disagree with the idea that all services do this, but I am assuming you don’t mean it in a literal sense. For the most part though I’m saying assuming people are not obese is, generally, the way to go.
YourPalContrail
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high altitude cloud pone
ya know I really think the biggest bane against the republican party is that they have such a narrow base. I honestly think that if they weren’t so immediately apposed to trans people I think more Republicans would fair better in elections. Republican need to expand their base or it will be their downfall.
also if Trump runs in ’22 that will be the dumbest move by the GOP. Incumbents are notoriously hard to win against and a person like Trump is far far too divisive to be able to have a chance
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CHS, Class of 20XX
@Background Pony #C9EE
I mean, if you agree that something should be, to the extent possible, a universal entitlement, the rest is just quibbling about words. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights had no problem defining food, shelter, etc. as a “human right” (Article 25), on the reasonable assumption that it probably isn’t binding on Tom Hanks in Cast Away.
And even then, Hanks does pursue these things. It’s just that his means are drastically limited. That freaking volleyball isn’t pulling his weight, man.
Background Pony #C9EE
@Background Human
The difficult part is finding what we agree on is a human right. The UN can declare whatever they like as a human right, that doesn’t mean it is or isn’t one, it just means the UN believes it is. You and I can decide that some aren’t, or that all of them are and even more should be added. What matters is in the discussion of what is or isn’t a human right trying to agree on the basic definition of human right, and then reasoning what would fall under that definition.
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Remind you guys, this was all over the custody of the child.
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Dogs
also if Trump runs in ’22 that will be the dumbest move by the GOP. Incumbents are notoriously hard to win against and a person like Trump is far far too divisive to be able to have a chance
It cannot be emphasized just how much of a political loser Trump is.
Trump is the first president in almost 200 years to lose the popular vote twice. He’s the first president in 30 years - almost my entire life! - to lose reelection. He’s the first president in like 80 years to lose all 3 branches of government for his party. Something around 4 out of every 5 candidates he’s ever endorsed has lost their electoral bids.
Hell, I’ll even go so far to point out that he’s the only president to be impeached twice and thanks to his constant lawsuits and recounts the only president to lose the same election over 60 times.
I almost want him to run again just to put the final nail in the myth of Trump’s competency. A billion things had to go just right for him to technically win that first time, and for the last 4 years we’ve seen that reconfirmed over and over.
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CHS, Class of 20XX
@Background Pony #C9EE
Forget the phrase “human right”. Do you agree that people ought to have food, shelter, healthcare, etc., and that it is incumbent upon society to provide these things when individuals are unable (or, hell, unwilling) to procure them themselves?
Background Pony #C9EE
@Background Human
I believe people should have the freedom to pursue these things. If a society believes that healthcare should be provided by the state, then I believe that every citizen of that state has the legal right to enjoy that benefit.
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@Dustcan
IIRC Trump only won because Russia hacked the vote so Hilary Clinton wouldn’t win. She wanted to ban flight over the Middle East and enforce said ban by nuking Russia into Skyrim.
Background Pony #B5D6
@Background Human
I’m not dodging the question, the question is pretty vague so instead of giving a yes or no I am giving you a detailed answer of where I stand.
Background Pony #B5D6
@Background Pony #B5D6
By this I mean I don’t know what etc. means and most importantly you’ve wrapped up two groups of people, those unwilling to get these things, with those unable to.
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