Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

@Ereiam  

 
The man has praised the sandinistas, the soviet union, he has come out in favor of nationalizing utlities, banks and major means of production, he doesn’t believe in private charity only the government providing the support. If all of that still doesn’t convince you he has advocated public ownership of the means of production. His history is full of it, the man is a socialist.

@Background Pony #4029  
i quess my response would be 1) what’s the context? and b) is any of that inherntly bad?

@Vivace  
I actually wonder if the two met at some point. I would imagine them being good friends, or at least get along fine enough.

@Background Pony #4029
 
>Sandinistas bad
 
Contra spotted. Please remain where you are. A revenge team has been dispatched to cleanse the world of your sin.

@Vortaxonus  
I don’t agree with socialism, I find it harmful and ignorant, however, if someone wants to be one or support one more power to them. I’m just pointing out that the man is one.

@Zincy  
Well Trump is behind on the times, because Pence doesn’t believe in Science.

Bloomberg probably fuckin’ suicided Epstein.

@igotnopicks  
besides electricity. Does he understands the principles of charge, amperage, frequency and load, Ohm’s law all that? Not sure.

@Background Pony #4029  
Tell me what the Sandinistas did that was bad, and then compare that to the US backed Contras thanks.

@Background Pony #4029  
What evidence do you have to suggest that Sanders thinks that private charity is bad as opposed to merely inadequate?
 
What evidence do you have suggesting that he is pro-USSR, as opposed to merely pro-certain-policies-that-the-USSR-supported?

@Background Pony #4029  

 
Additionally (I’m making a separate post because people rightly complain when I throw in multiple new paragraphs into pre-existing ones), IT NEEDS BE REMARKED that socialism is not state-ownership of certain key industries; to the socialists, socialism is the democratization of the economy; to the Marxists, socialism is communist society (i.e. a society in which the means of production are united into a single production apparatus; production is organized on the basis of a common plan; generalized commodity production is abolished; and there is no privileged bureaucracy, standing army, nor police – no “state-machine”) with a system of distribution in accordance with socially necessary labour time. What evidence do you have to suggest that he supports either programs?

@dissociativity  
This isn’t a matter of what aboutism. group A doesn’t excuse group B. More imoortantly they ARE socialists, which is the point of the post.
 
 
@Snail Pie  
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/will-sanders-long-ago-praise-socialist-regimes-hurt-democrats-november-n1139811
 
plenty of other articles exist to catalogue his history.

@Background Pony #268B  
Can you post an actual recording of him saying that the USSR/Cuba were good?
 
Because in his 60 Minutes interview he said they were bad but had a few good policies… like extensive literacy programs.

@Snail Pie  
https://reason.com/2019/03/14/bernie-sanders-wanted-public-ownership-o/

@Background Pony #268B  
>1976  
Last time I checked we’re in 2020.
 
Also, he said, “I favor the public ownership of utilities, banks and major industries,” not that the entire economy should be publicly or collectively owned.

@Snail Pie  
These requests are getting ridiculous. “can you provide an actual recording of Bernie Sanders saying the entire soviet regime is good from the 70s” of course not because what you want is so specific it will never be found. What yoy get instead is numeeous instances where Bernie has come out to support the economic side of the country while saying he doesn’t support the human rights abuses. Not supporting human rights abuses doesn’t mean he isn’t socialist.

@Snail Pie  
“In the long run, the problem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.”
 
Yeah, sure, the man is totally not a socialist. Keep living in your fantasy world.

@Background Pony #268B  

 
Asking for a primary source behind a claim is not ridiculous. And I’m not asking for a source from the 70’s; I’m asking for a recent primary source document suggesting that he still believes what he said in the 70’s. I’m not denying that he used to be a socialist; I’m denying that he is a socialist right now.
 
What specific economic sides? Literacy programs? Universal healthcare? Educational programs? Eradictation of unemployment? These things aren’t democratization of the economy nor communism. Again, what evidence is there for him – not a newspaper article, but a primary source – supporting that the entire economy should be either commonly or collectively owned?
 
The person I was responding to said, “[Bernie Sanders] has praised […] the soviet union.” I asked them for evidence of him supporting the Soviet Union rather than him saying certain policies or programs were desirable – like, for instance, Cuba’s healthcare system or literacy programs. There is a difference between praising a regime and praising certain policies of a regime while breaking with others.

@Background Pony #268B  
This is from 1976, not the present.

@Snail Pie  
The reason article has a video in it with Bernie. The ridiculousness is that you won’t accept anything less then a full confesson from Bernie. You have years of him supporting these policies publicly, You have him publicly supporting the public ownership of the major means of production. You have his history of defending socialist regimes. At a certain point you have to look at the mountain of evidence and realize the man is a socialist at heart.

@Background Pony #268B  
“[…] mountain of evidence [from the 70’s]”. Ftfy.
 
“defending”
 

 
50-ish years ago.

@Background Pony #268B  

 
Bruh. You are relying on “confessions” from the 70’s. Surely you can provide one now if – especially considering how he is being currently pressured by the media to speak about it – he still believes in common/collective ownership of the means of production. All I am asking for is evidence of a continuation. All the evidence you have provided is from the 70’s and 80’s. It’s 2020 right now.

@Snail Pie  
You pbviously didn’t read the full chain of this converaation. It started off with me saying the man is a socialist but tones down the rhetoric now in order to get elected. He isn’t an idiot, he knows going out on stage demanding the most extreme things will get him booed off and nothing accomplished. Instead he advocates for things he can get done while calling himself a “democratic socialist”.

@Background Pony #268B  
You are relying on evidence from the 70’s and 80’s to argue that he believes those things now, and when I have pressured you for relatively contemporary evidence of such, you turn to, “Oh he’s just hiding his power levels.” This is not an argument for him still believing in what he said back then; it’s a cop-out.
 
Give me evidence that’s recent but before his presidential campaign. Evidence from the 70’s and 80’s is merely evidence that he believed those things in the 70’s and 80’s.