Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

AaronMk
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Sky funeral
Colonialism is just the weirdest flex on people who never asked for it. Like imagine someone busting into your house and telling you your drapes are wrong and then looting the furniture and the fridge.
 
And then insists on living in the master bedroom rent free.
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@The Smiling Pony  
I dunno I feel like this one of the cases where the bad things clearly outweighs the good, like certain war and certain regime in the middle of 20th century discrediting eugenics for most people or jim crow laws and lynching causing the Civil Rights movement.
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Also aw my second post was eaten by the change of page, here:
 
@Background Pony #7A39  
@AaronMk
Which rises actually interesting question of whenever Iberian cultures such as Galicians, Leonese, Asturians, Castilians, Aragonese and Catalans were present as we know them or at least somehow close to that during Visigoths rule over most of Spain, right before the Arab invasion.
I am personally inclined to not think so, as it honestly close to saying what for Example Russians and Ukrainians at the height of the Kievan Rus or even before Rurik, or insisting what there were Austrians or Bavarians during reign of Charlemagne.
AaronMk
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Sky funeral
@AaronMk
Which rises actually interesting question of whenever Iberian cultures such as Galicians, Leonese, Asturians, Castilians, Aragonese and Catalans were present as we know them or at least somehow close to that during Visigoths rule over most of Spain, right before the Arab invasion.
I am personally inclined to not think so, as it honestly close to saying what for Example Russians and Ukrainians at the height of the Kievan Rus or even before Rurik, or insisting what there were Austrians or Bavarians during reign of Charlemagne.
 
Well as I recall the narrative of Spanish development going, there wasn’t any sort of move towards a full Spanish until the Reconquista was in full swing. The first nominally Spanish-esque piece of literature being the Cantar de mio Cid in the late 11th century, where as the Moorish invasion was in the 8th century, by which point I think the only still-existing cultural population from that time would be the Basques. About the 11th century is when we can say Castillian and Leonese and so on did exist, but by the 8th they probably weren’t even trending into existence yet.
 
to relate this to colonialism though, with exception of the Crusades classical conquest such as this is different from the later post-15th century era of colonialism by how the act was merely a change in local leadership than total top-down reshaping of the landscape. While the Moors didn’t seek to eliminate Christians or Jews and maintained their populations, they certainly didn’t like it though when Muslims converted to either or; they didn’t seek to totally eliminate and re-write millennia of independent cultural development, enslaving a people and then enforcing their cultural supremacy on the population as in the later Spanish conquest of Central and South America where entire structures were destroyed and the native populations pushed to the fringes and made as near-slaves by the foreign master class with rolling repercussions today in which wide-scale atrocities and genocides into the modern era is the go-to to maintaining dominance of the population.
 
Pre-modern periods were much more dominated already by very localized cultures and it would have been excruciatingly difficult for the institutions then to try and enforce any sort of cultural hegemony, so even the migration of Romans from Italy following their conquests didn’t see the extinction of a cultural, but more the intermarrying of the two groups until they reached a synthesis. Versus, well: Americans sweeping aside the Native Americans into tiny reservations and then clear into the seventies or eighties trying to educate out of existence all evidence of being Cherokee, Shawnee, and so on.
 
And besides Genghis Khan of Tamerlane there hasn’t been any significant long-term and targeted effort to physically destroy a landscape until very much later into industrialized colonialism. Hawaii is still suffering from long term physical and legal impacts of plantation-system sugar operations that’s seen much of the islands desertified through abuse of the otherwise carefully managed water resources prior to the arrival of Yankee missionaries.
 
But much more often the impact of colonialism as talked about is the recent kind because it’s still having living and breathing impacts on entire segments of the world, a large majority of it really that’s laid the foundations for troubled internal and multi-national politics to this day. And with the emphasis of “Well X’s culture is bad therefore we need to teach them” underlines the backwards parental outlook on it, by making what’d otherwise be an internal matter no longer your own. It’s busting down the front door to teach someone otherwise simply because you don’t agree or share the same epistemic structure as you, and then staying there to live.
 
What even makes western cultural attitudes so “good”?
The Smiling Pony
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@AaronMk  
Not Basque, they’ve always considered themselves separate (and superior) to the rest of the peninsula. It’d be Navarre and Asturias where the concept of “spanish culture”, and “reconquering” the peninsula originated. Mostly people weren’t all that happy about being made second class citizens due to their religion and the royals pushed hard on that point. Ironic that later on in the (re)conquest they’d go and do the same, later even outright expulsing the sefardis and, obviously, imposing christianity in the “new world”*.
 
*A part of that was less to do with religious zeal and a lot with how deeply the church had woven itself in legal spanish institutions; there wasn’t a way or a community to function without the church handling certain matters.
 
 
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Outweigh? Sure, probably.
RoseShelf
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@The Smiling Pony  
Woah woah woah, superior? Since when!? They mostly just considered themselves different and deserving of their own control instead of that from Leon or Madrid. And even counting the Carlist wars (which is more about money and the church than national identity), that’s a very incorrect way of saying how the Basque have felt over the Spaniards or Castillians.
AaronMk
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Sky funeral
@AaronMk
Not Basque, they’ve always considered themselves separate (and superior) to the rest of the peninsula.
 
Well, they are superior. They literally did not invent skin-based rascism. They are the Anti-Gamer. They don’t have the rascism factory for their fail sons, so they never get fail sons.
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@RoseShelf  
@AaronMk  
Hah, no, instead they invented bloodtype-based racism. Nevermind how you’re not accepted as one of them, even with the right blood and eye colour, unless you can trace back your last names back four generations or more.
RoseShelf
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@The Smiling Pony  
I’m guessing you got this info from the film “Cuatro Apellidos Vascos” instead of the actual history of the Iberian Peninsula or any source on Basque Nationalism, like the rising of the PNV party, which had racial connotation that was basically just “muh liberals are tryna crush my traditions of le church with a separation of state and church” but died out after the Carlist wars; up to the abertzale left terrorism of the 70s and the current climate on the Basque Country which is WAY DIFFERENT and since never about race superiority but rather another culture taking over for le colonisation flex.
The Smiling Pony
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@RoseShelf  
No, I got it from studying Sabino Arana, aka the founder and still spiritual north of the PNV, aka the principal and main Basque ruling party, well before that movie came to be (nor have I seen, because tbh spanish movies are typically trash anyway). Though I agree on the “culture taking over for le colonisation flex”, seeing how PNV’n co. want to put Navarre under its flag and control.
AaronMk
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Sky funeral
@AaronMk
Failsons are eternal, even without the racism factories
 
It’s kinda hard to fail son when the people ruling you failson’d so hard they collapsed the economy of Europe, spent heavily into incest and silly wars, and ever since have been bullied by the French and baby America. Basque failsons join glorious ETA and through martyrdom to Franco become normal unimpressive sons.
Katamariguy

@MethidMan  
It’s not about whether it “makes sense” or not, it’s about how full a picture you’re getting of an enormous and controversial field from a brief video with a narrow focus.
Ereiam
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Monde de merde
@The Smiling Pony  
Well, a Spaniard would be hard-pressed to call ETA “glorious” (same as an Englishman about the IRA, a Frenchman about the FLN – or the FLNC, for that matter –, a Moroccan about the Polisario Front, a Mexican about the EZLN, a Yankee about the Confederacy, a continental Chinese about the Kuomintang, etc, etc).
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@Ereiam  
I normally don’t hear people cheering for murderous animals around here, so it’s a bit jarring to hear the european version of ISIS or the KKK being called “glorious” for meme points.
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@AaronMk  
Ah yes, every one of ETA’s victims was a fascists. Obviously none of their bombs murderd or maimed innocent bystanders, even all the people in Hipercor were card carrying falangists, as was every one of the people they sequestered and executed. Silly me.
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