Viewing last 25 versions of post by HeadlessHorselessHorseman in topic Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy. (Politics General)

"[@Ebalosus":](/forums/generals/topics/tartarus?post_id=5029239#post_5029239
[bq="Ebalosus"]) " 

> [@HeadlessHorselessHorseman":](/forums/generals/topics/tartarus?post_id=5028868#post_5028868

)
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> In broad strokes you’re right, but more specifically it’s with regards to the _*process, not personalities_* liberals who don’t care how ghoulish the politicians or people in the news are, as long as their ghoulishness is within the rules and protocols of whatever institution they’re a part of.


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> These are the people who shit all over Trump because he’s an asshole rogue, but love uncle George Bush Jr because despite all the worse things he did, at least he wasn’t an asshole and brought 'honour' to the institution of the president. They also don’t have solutions to people’s material concerns beyond what sounds good within the capitalist-corporatist paradigm, hence their focus on race and gender and not class.[/bq]



 
I see your point. However...


 
To the extent that TvTropes can be used as a barometer of the Sorkinite tendencies you're referring to (I get most of my news and commentary from there; as toxic as the forums can be, they're fairly accurate in terms of information), none of the posters there literally favor procedures to the exclusion of everything else, and none of them actually _*like_* George W. Bush; they just think that Trump is far worse in terms of his personal qualities, and that his administration would have been even worse than it was (and in their eyes, it was already catastrophic) if the Adults in the Room weren't holding him back. They don't negatively compare to Trump to Bush to exonerate Bush, but to bemoan how far things have fallen. To them, there's "bad and corrupt" and there's "apocalyptic." Trump was apocalyptic. Were some of their fears unfounded and misplaced? Probably. But they make what they feel are rational choices to support lesser evils.


 
You're also overstating the extent to which they emphasize racial and gender concerns over class struggles; they view both as important. They _*do_* tend to be quite hostile to "brocialists" (and they consider Chapo Trap House brocialist) who view gender and racial issues strictly as extensions of class conflict, but their ranks contain a number of Sanders supporters, and few of them were particularly enthusiastic about Biden.



 
 
The problem I see with your brand of libertarianism is that it effectively rules out any active participation in electoral politics. That's fine if you've devoted yourself to living off the grid and building alternative communities, but those of us who are still tied into the mainstream are trying to find a way to make the system work for us. We don't want to burn it down.

"@Ebalosus":/forums/generals/topics/tartarus?post_id=5029239#post_5029239
[bq="Ebalosus"] "@HeadlessHorselessHorseman":/forums/generals/topics/tartarus?post_id=5028868#post_5028868

In broad strokes you’re right, but more specifically it’s with regards to the _process, not personalities_ liberals who don’t care how ghoulish the politicians or people in the news are, as long as their ghoulishness is within the rules and protocols of whatever institution they’re a part of.

These are the people who shit all over Trump because he’s an asshole rogue, but love uncle George Bush Jr because despite all the worse things he did, at least he wasn’t an asshole and brought 'honour' to the institution of the president. They also don’t have solutions to people’s material concerns beyond what sounds good within the capitalist-corporatist paradigm, hence their focus on race and gender and not class.[/bq]

I see your point. However...

To the extent that TvTropes can be used as a barometer of the Sorkinite tendencies you're referring to (I get most of my news and commentary from there; as toxic as the forums can be, they're fairly accurate in terms of information), none of the posters there literally favor procedures to the exclusion of everything else, and none of them actually _like_ George W. Bush; they just think that Trump is far worse in terms of his personal qualities, and that his administration would have been even worse than it was (and in their eyes, it was already catastrophic) if the Adults in the Room weren't holding him back. They don't negatively compare to Trump to Bush to exonerate Bush, but to bemoan how far things have fallen. To them, there's "bad and corrupt" and there's "apocalyptic." Trump was apocalyptic. Were some of their fears unfounded and misplaced? Probably. But they make what they feel are rational choices to support lesser evils.

You're also overstating the extent to which they emphasize racial and gender concerns over class struggles; they view both as important. They _do_ tend to be quite hostile to "brocialists" (and they consider Chapo Trap House brocialist) who view gender and racial issues strictly as extensions of class conflict, but their ranks contain a number of Sanders supporters, and few of them were particularly enthusiastic about Biden.


The problem I see with your brand of libertarianism is that it effectively rules out any active participation in electoral politics. That's fine if you've devoted yourself to living off the grid and building alternative communities, but those of us who are still tied into the mainstream are trying to find a way to make the system work for us. We don't want to burn it down.