Star Wars General

@Darth Prime
We’re talking about a game that set out to make the Jedi look bad, your mentor being a Sith who lost her connection to the Force, a main character who is so edgy that she killed an entire planet and was cut off from the Force because of it, and that thinks killing the Force is the best outcome for the Star Wars universe. If I’m told I’m “subverting expectations” because I want characters to be more than their specie’s stereotypes, than I can’t imagine those people seeing a game like KOTOR2 as anything less than an abomination in the franchise.

@Meanlucario
And I’m saying despite how it’s held up now KOTOR 2 was received mixed when it came out.

@Darth Prime
I’ve yet to see why people like it so far.

I did not enjoy KOTOR 2 all that much. A horrible unfinished mess it was. Bugs everywhere and no ending even since they ran out of time. Note that I played it without any mods to restore content. Obsidian at its messiest.

KOTOR 1 was a better game in most ways. Bioware back when it was good.

@Meanlucario
Because deconstruction.
Because it basically says (mostly through Kreia) “boy this whole light side vs dark side good vs evil Jedi vs Sith thing is pretty stupid when you think about it. You think all those normies in the Galaxy care who the good guys and bad guys are and balance of The Force when their worlds are getting wrecked? They cared so little the call the last conflict the Jedi Civil War cause Jedi Sith what’s the difference?”

@silbasa
I started playing it with the restoration mod a few months back, and I found it dull and annoying.

@Darth Prime
So like most common people in a society. The common folk tend to not care too often about what happens outside their lives or the details that don’t matter overall. And you forget “The Force itself is evil because it causes these wars and we are the Anti-Force because we were cut-off from it until now.”

@Meanlucario
Yeah. It’s not great. Level design is bad. Characters are strange. The cantina music is the worst I have ever heard.

Then maybe now you can understand how I feel towards TLJ.

Now I didn’t forget that’s what the “light side vs dark side” in my last post was referring to.
But I feel like that’s something left up to the player to decide if they agree with that.

@Darth Prime
At least TLJ was some good stuff.

I feel like they did that because it’s an RPG and their “true” ending doesn’t fit with the canon and not because they wanted to give players the freedom to choose.

In a way KOTOR 2 was the sequels in game format 11 years before those movies came out. The nihilism of the sequel trilogy and this game never worked for me in Star Wars.

@silbasa
I watched TLJ. I can’t agree it’s nihilism. Pessimistic, but not nihilistic.

@Meanlucario
Which part was good?

I feel you’re the one that’s most hang up on canon.
And I don’t mean choose to agree with her as a in-game chose I mean chose to agree with her IRL whether they find she has a point in what she says or whether she’s a big fat hypocritical bitch mcbitch pants crazy old lady.
I tend to lean a little more towards the latter myself.

@Darth Prime
You didn’t like Yoda using Divine Smite on some outdated books or Luke using a Force power that never appeared in the movies until than, dying a hero to save everyone?

And you lost me in the ramblings of the second part.

@Meanlucario
Well the problem with Yoda there is Force Ghosts interacting with the material world in such a way makes one wonder why they don’t just solve the problems, my own personal justification being because it’s a world strong in the Force so Yoda lightening and Luke raising the X-Wing in the next movie can only happen here.
Also Yoda did NOT burn any books cause Rey is revealed at the end to have taken them, a scene that my brain refused to register the first time viewing because it made no sense for Yoda to act like he burned the books when as a Force Ghost he would have known Rey took them, thus it was done that way simple to have a revel for the audience.
As for the Luke part, the movie at the end now says the Legend of Luke Skywalker is important and a good thing for the Galaxy to believe in (after spending so much time telling us it was “overhyped” if you will) and has Luke fake a miracle to reignite his legend, whereas his legend originally started by doing the miraculous by blowing up the Death Star.
The latter is Luke using the Force to do the impossible, the former is Luke using the Force to fake the impossible.

Where was the good stuff again?

And what I was trying to say was I was not talking about agreeing with Kreia as an in-game chose I was saying it’s left up to the player in real life (which is what IRL stands for) to decide whether what she’s preaching is interesting or has an value or whether they find her a crazy old lady talking outta her ass.

I think the greatest achievement of the Clone Wars was that it darkened the republic and, for lack of a better term, “humbled” Palps plan.

The Prequels made it seem like Palp masterminded this insane plot and orchestrated every event. The Republic looked like an innocent victim wrapped up in a god-tier super conspiracy.

The Clone Wars showed that the Empire started before the Sith even got involved. That the Republic was already corrupt to the core and bordering on totalitarianism. Palps plan didn’t create the rot, he just knew how to use it to his advantage.

@Zincy
The number of war crimes they commit helps show that. Not even the Jedi hesitate mowing down citizens of a neutral planet defending themselves from the Republic after their represented was killed in the Republic’s home and they left, losing faith in the Republic.

@Zincy
Well there’s mentions of the Republic/Senate being plagued by corruption after all a Senate that gives a seat to corporations clearly is problematic but there was just no time to get into it.

I wish the could have played around more with Dooku maybe actually being a good guy.
There’s that brief moment that plays with the idea when he tells Obi-Wan that the Senate is now under Sidious’s control which we the audience know is true so it make it seems like the Separatists are founded to fight the Sith Lord.
But unfortunately the movies give no time for to explain what the Separatist Movement actually wants instead just shown that they’re just a tool for Palpatine to create a war he controls both sides of.

I completely agree. The CIS was born out of discontent with the Republic and yet we have never seen much of the average CIS’ average civilian population. Give Dooku a point. Show the CIS actually improving someone’s life or at least a reason why someone would support it out of disillusionment over just doing all these villainous plots and war crimes.

@doloresbridge
That’s what I hate about Pal being in charge of everything. The movies and even the Clone Wars was content on making the CIS as evil as possible (for the most part), even though they have legit motives (except for the ones who did it to escape paying their taxes). It doesn’t make Pal look like a mastermind, it makes the writers look lazy by not putting in the effort to make them anywhere near complex and (for a lack of a better world) human.

@Meanlucario
I don’t hate Palp-o-teen being in charge of everything in itself, but I think it is something to be said that manipulation is not absolute 100% control even with the power he had.

Running with that, it could have been cool for the CIS to have been shown a connection to the rebellion as opposed of the first seeds of the Rebellion being just good neutral planets in the petition of 2000. If they had played with that idea and have some of having laying the seeds for rebellion later in a sort of poetic justice.

@doloresbridge
I heard that the CIS were a part of the rebellion from the start, though that could be from books rather than shows and movies.

@doloresbridge
*friend-o-teen