Dragon Ball Thread

I think Launch is in DBZ Kakarot, right? She even talks about Tien. Lol I wonder if this effects canon at all.

You know something has bothered me for a long time about MasakoX’s “What if Raditz turned Good” scenario. Basically….why would Raditz turn against his superior’s in this scenario? Masako’s scenario actually makes it easier for Raditz to take over earth. Goku dies, Raditz doesn’t even get hit by the special beam canon. Piccolo has used up all of his power. Welp…that is literally half of the threat dead. Piccolo and Goku together couldn’t beat him head on. All Raditz has to do is kill Piccolo and then take over the Earth. He’d have the place gift wrapped by the time Nappa and Vegeta got there.
 
To make matters worse, how does Raditz not know that fighting against Vegeta wouldn’t incur the wrath of Freiza?
 
Also Masako’s idea does that annoying thing of “forgive mass murderers and they suffer 0 punishment for their crimes.” crap that Vegeta got. No matter how sympathetic you want Raditz to be he’s still a killer monkey man who enjoys killing.

@Ranch  
Pretty much the only way any of them would have turned good is the standard way, Goku beats the shit out of them and asks them to be buddies, they tell him to fuck off and then a little later realise their interests actually do align.
 
…Raditz ironically enough was too strong for that to work.

In my opinon there really is no way to realistically write a redemption for Raditz that doesn’t involve him dying and going to hell. Him surviving that first encounter with Goku and Piccolo 100% dooms the earth.
 
Now how he gets out….well from what I know there is no canonical way for evil people to get out of hell. So. Yeah. Raditz is basically destined to be written out of the story forever unless.
 
A. You make up some fanfiction-ish way for him to get out of hell. Setting Raditz on a redemptive path that puts him nowhere near Goku n Friends, at least not at the start. So only worth pursuing if you just want to use Raditz as a vector for homemade dragonball adventures with a lower powered character.
 
B. The good guys wish him back with the dragon balls , likely after the Freiza saga since by then everyone is stronger than him. He can become a part of the cast but you have to ask yourself why anyone would bother.

Budokai Tenkaichi 2 did a decent Raditz redemption plot. Of course that one needed amnesia to sell it.

@Dustcan
 
The one where he dies? I mean…I’ll accept amnesia. I don’t mind cliches at all as long as the entire story isn’t built on them.

@Ranch
 
Yeah. Sure it works, but an AU that basically makes your character forget who he’s supposed to be in order to sell a redemption plot is a tacit confession that who they are is practically unredeemable.

@Dustcan  

 
Those were the days. The Zarbon what-if plot was mildly entertaining, as well, tragic ending notwithstanding.
 
BT2 had better music than 3, really.
 
Speaking as an author of an amnesia redemption fic, I can attest to your claims.

@Dustcan
 
Lol that’s probably why Raditz died. Unredeemable. The only difference between him and Vegeta was Goku’s ability to defeat them. Also I think once Goku got to a certain level of strength he was more willing to show mercy.  
Because his selfish saiyan nature of leaving evil people alive for a chance at another fight doesn’t kick in til later.

I hate Super. Its trash and it just steam rolls over Z. Why is Frieza wished back….ok for the ToP….but why is he allowed to just start his shit all over again. I hate that. And I actually like Freiza….but its like, this is proof enough that the franchise either needs to die or be rebooted.

@Ranch  
I’m cool on a fair bit of Super, but Frieza was great. His being an epic dickhead from the moment he’s brought back, getting the shit kicked out of him by Dyspo, Top and Jiren, teaming up with Goku and his final redemption god no, he’s still totally evil were highly entertaining.
 
Especially…
 
“Ohohoh, you do know I intend to rebuild my army and conquer the universe again don’t you?”
 
“…and then I would beat you up again. Seriously, we’ve thrashed you three times at this point.”

@Philweasel
 
I love how Goku, Geets and Frieza has chilled to being Sunday Mortal Enemies by the time of the Broly movie. It’s like, Frieza would love nothing more than to kill Goku and Vegeta, but he has a newfound appreciation for not being killed by Goku and Vegeta. Meanwhile Goku and Vegeta basically responds to Frieza’s threats to kill them with a nonchalant/enthusiastic ‘Okay I’m down for a good fight anytime.’

@Dustcan  

 
That made me laugh. Seriously, Frieza loves to talk shit but Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, or 17 and 18 together could kick his butt.
 
…and he knows it.

@Philweasel
 
Him continuing to exist is just a gigantic middle finger to sensible storytelling. And it’s lazy. At least put a leash on him or something.
 
I know this puts me firmly in the camp of “Taking dragonball too seriously” But I don’t caaaaare.

@Ranch  
Well they needed someone strong for the tournament, they needed them in a hurry, and they had to give him something he wanted to force his agreement.
 
It was him or Yamcha. Or Cell.
 
And as Goku points out, they can kill him fairly easily. That’s his leash. Vegeta in particular would just love to melt his face off again. They also assumed he was even weaker than he actually was, I mean last time they tangled Goku kinda curbstomped him. (Honestly Resurrection F Frieza is likely weaker than 17 and Universal Tournament Gohan)

@Philweasel
 
Its a leash so long its practically non existent. Am I wrong in thinking Freiza is doing exactly what he was doing in Z? Goku and Vegeta don’t care unless he sets his sights on Earth.

@Ranch  
I doubt it is. The video games usually don’t have any bearing on what happens in the manga or anime.

*angery jealous vegeta noise*
 

Happy Kakarot Day guys

@Ranch  
Yeah i do not care for that, Super has really tried to push the whole idea that the heroes aren’t actually heroes thing to hard and now it makes them unlikable, also other stupid shit like Goten and Trunks not aging at all, and the out of control power levels,

As someone who has been a fan of the series for 20 years and owns every episode and movie of DB, DBZ, GT, and Super, I honestly feel when I look at the entire series objectively, my ranking stands as this: DB>Z>Super>GT.
 
The original Dragon Ball with Kid Goku and friends and the more mystical martial arts adventure theme had the best overall writing, character development, and fight choreography. Dragon Ball Z had the fantastic sci-fi elements, massive lore expanding into space, especially regarding the Saiyans, Frieza’s empire and the Namekians, and of course the amazing over-the-top battles, dramatic moments, and iconic transformations. Super gave us a whole new god hierarchy, new expanded lore revealing multiple universes, god ki, several cool moments, family man Vegeta, and one of the most twisted and insidious villains in Zamasu/Goku Black. ANd oh yeah, can’t forget that crazy 80 fighter free-for-all tournament and major character growth for Frieza.
 
GT had amazing ideas and concepts but overall poor execution of said ideas. However, Baby, Super Saiyan 4, and the concept of the corrupted dragon balls and the shadow dragons as a final arc to the entire series were the big accomplishments and I do appreciate them. Meanwhile, Super suffered the setbacks of retelling the movies in its first two arcs which was a mistake, as well as poor, rushed animation at early parts especially the RoF arc and the bad taste left in many fans’ mouths with how Future Trunks and Mai went back to the future to live with their duplicates in a broken timeline.
 
That all being said, I prefer Super over GT because while both had serious flaws, I feel that Super overall had better usage of most characters instead of being the Goku show like in GT. Also, Super as a whole had more entertaining fights and memorable moments in my opinion than GT did. Let’s also not forget Super had a total run of 131 episodes to GT’s 64. But damn does GT’s ending mop the floor with both Z’s and Super’s though.
 
Hopefully, whenever the Super anime finally comes back, it will be better than the first iteration. If the Broly movie and Moro arc in the manga are any indications, I think it will be.

@Ethereal Divide
 
I just seriously hope the treat Goku’s character better, Super’s presentation of the character was just horrific, it felt like they way overplayed his “stupid” to dare I say abridged levels, Super’s Goku really felt like a parody of a parody of the character

@Littlecabbit
 
Definitely a fair criticism and I think we’ve all noticed it. I hope they dial it back down a notch too. It was critical to the ToP arc plot, but it wasn’t necessary to have Goku be that way throughout the entirety of Super. I’d also really like to advance things to end of Z or retcon that and get to Uub and beyond already. We’ve stretched and milked this time frame way too much as it is. Also for the love of Kami, let Goten and Trunks age!

For Xenoverse 3 i would love to see a new set of Shadow Dragons created from the Canton City Dragon Balls as the main threat, maybe have Towa and Mira from the new timeline created by Xeno Trunks saving Gohan be behind it,