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50 comments posted
Cirrus Light's avatar
Cirrus Light
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Thread Starter - The SJW Thread
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under his artist tag
Friendship, Art, and Magic (5 Years) - Celebrated Derpibooru's five year anniversary with friends.
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Condensed Milk - State-Approved Compensation
Economist

Sciencepone of Science!
@Beau Skunky
@Beau Skunky
I think I know what you’re talking about.

I think the feeling comes from the fact that usually episodes based on a character not having fun, being scared, or being antisocial are centered around the character learning to have fun, overcoming their fear, or being more social. In general, I guess it’s a thing about growing as an individual to overcome weaknesses.

We were presented with Flutters’ fear of the holiday as a crippling weakness. She could barely even go outside.

So we expected her to grow as a character and for things to change for the better – for her not to be so scared on Nightmare Night, for her to have fun with her friends.

But instead the episode ended with a return to the status quo. Granted, not exactly, because now she’s a bit less afraid and understands a bit better, but still, it’s more or less the status quo because she’s not going out and having fun, she’s still staying holed up under her bed instead of being with her friends.

So, it kind of makes it feel like it was all for nothing, and instead of overcoming her fears, she succumbed to them.

Though that’s not exactly true, it very much feels that way, leaving the episode feeling a bit hollow, as enjoyable as it was (except for the cringefest of that spooky tea party. Ow, my soul. I just felt so painfully embarrassed and uncomfortable for everypony >.< ).



@*sigh*
probably the only real way to "fix" this issue in the minds of people like myself would be to do away with the current set of holidays and simply start from scratch.

Then join a brony club and don’t celebrate Valentines, Christmas, or Halloween. Celebrate Hearts and Hooves Day, Hearth’s Warming, and Nightmare Night. That is exactly what you said, so there ya go.

It’s a whole new holiday as you said. And don’t give me nothin’ about the dates, that’s coincidental and unrelated to the original purposes of the holidays. If you propose a toast and celebrate a victory, the date means nothing, only the thing you’ve gathered to toast and celebrate matters.

As for the corporate thing, that’s kinda nonsense. The best fun I’ve had with my friends is on holidays doing stuff together. And Christmas traditions really bring a family together. Gives you exciting things to look forward to every year. I know I’m excited to host a haunted mansion roleplay game with my friends around Nightmare Night. And Christmas is always the best – a regular reason and excuse to bring the family together, because without it, you have great trouble getting everyone together at any one time.
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requiem-dirge
Artist
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@PonyPon
@Evowizard25
Here’s my official list:

It has:
-Shy putting animals’ needs over ponies’
-Her romanticizing brutish and hurtful animal nature
-Having her argument being portrayed as in the right over her friend
-whom also loses more than Shy gained in the entire thing
-Was turned into a monster (by somewhat contrived magic) so she could get her way
-Shames the party that had the sensible attitude because it was against shy, whose solution would make things worse on every logical level but was portrayed as right because who gives a shit
-And it gave Shy yet another ’monster inside’ gimmick that almost lazy when it happened last, and is not what she needs more of



Gonna talk about this.

—Fluttershy wasn’t putting animals’ needs over the ponies, but alongside them. Her argument involved limiting the bat’s access to a small part of the orchard; in exchanges, the seeds the bats regurgitate would produce stronger, more productive trees. And, before the farmers and botanists in the fandom say anything, Equestria is a world where one race has near absolute control of the weather, another race is the only one capable of working the land to produce vegetation, and two members of the entire species manipulate the celestial bodies. Pretty good chance that real-world horticulture doesn’t apply to equine horticulture—or, "horseyculture", as the cool kids will start calling it—in this situation.

—Fluttershy and Applejack’s overall views on the bats were both skewed: Fluttershy tends to see most, if not all, animals in a positive light, and reflected them as such, with the imagery showing said bats in a chibi, cutesy style; Applejack, due to stories conveyed to her from Granny Smith, could only see the negatives of the bats, and her version of them was a darker, more twisted version of the real bats.

—…to be honest, with the entire argument thing, over who was right? While both sides had a point, Applejack was more in the right due to one major factor to Fluttershy’s plan and suggestion: TIME. While the shelter is being built, while Fluttershy is learning to communicate with the bats, said bats are still wrecking the orchard. The only one in the wrong with this was Twilight, wanting to utilize magic to "fix" the problem, with no indication that she’d change the bats back. Twilight, as the leader, should have come to a compromise: that the bats would be rounded up, have their natures changed, then the shelter would be built while Fluttershy learns their language, and once all that’s done, Twilight would return the bats to their original nature.

—…Fluttershy wasn’t turned into a monster because she wanted to be turned into a monster. It was Twilight "Really Good But Reckless As Hell With Magic" Sparkle combining a spell that had negative effects the first time she used it (Swarm of the Century) with an x-factor being Fluttershy’s Stare. I have no idea how this could have gone wrong! </sarcasm>

How did Fluttershy "shame" anyone? She spent the night feral, after deciding to use her Stare in a manner she’s uncomfortable with (using the Stare against the Red Dragon, Discord, etc, was warranted, as these were dire emergencies; using it to alter the behaviors of animals behaving like animals goes against one of her own core beliefs) and ultimately reassured Applejack that this would work out for everypony in the long run.

—…I got nothin’ on the last part, Flutterbat is awesome, and I hope we see her again. :3 (But, maybe, a little less wild.)
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Wesley Foxx's avatar
Wesley Foxx
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012
Artist
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
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(Previously known as Keith Mowz)

The Fluffiest
@*sigh*
Holidays were co-opted from older traditions? Wow, why did no one tell me, this is such a well-kept secret that is not common knowledge, etc. :P

All that means to me is that you don’t have to be religious to celebrate the seasons with those who are, which feels fitting for this episode we were originally talking about.
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*sigh*'s avatar
*sigh*
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Keith Mowz
It’s funny you bring up the celebration of the seasons, as the often religious association many of the holidays we have today originated with old, native traditions. These were then co-opted by the Church so as to make it easier to convert locals whenever they’d roll into town. (That’s the majority of the reason for not celebrating on the religious side of things, less so the personal) For instance, Christmas is likely nowhere near the actual birth of Jesus, but instead has its roots in a Roman sun worshiping ritual. Throw in a tree taken from pagan religions either from Germany or Scandanavia (historians aren’t 100% sure) and a myth about a jolly fat man bastardized from real history and you have a holiday ascribed to Christianity that has little to do with the religion.

To actually answer your question, probably the only real way to "fix" this issue in the minds of people like myself would be to do away with the current set of holidays and simply start from scratch. Not that that’s ever going to happen, of course, so in the mean time we’re just going to be over here minding our own business. The bit about Big Business screwing you out of your potential family time sucks hardcore but, in my mind, is much more a product of greed than anything to do with this conversation.
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Wesley Foxx's avatar
Wesley Foxx
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012
Artist
An Artist Who Rocks - 100+ images under their artist tag
Happy Derpy! - For Patreon supporters
Friendship, Art, and Magic (5 Years) - Celebrated Derpibooru's five year anniversary with friends.
Best Artist - Providing quality, Derpibooru-exclusive artwork
Not a Llama - Happy April Fools Day!
Birthday Cake - Celebrated MLP's 7th birthday
Helpful Owl - Drew someone's OC for the 2018 Community Collab
Friendship, Art, and Magic (6 Years) - Celebrated Derpibooru's six year anniversary with friends.

(Previously known as Keith Mowz)

The Fluffiest
@*sigh*
Its hard to celebrate the harvest in spring, the coming of spring in winter, or the new year in late autumn.

Would it be better if more holidays worked like Easter and just occurred at an approximate time of year? How could you celebrate with your friends if there’s no specific day you can coordinate to get off work? Again, literally the only reason I can celebrate Christmas is because December 25th is off limits even to some of the biggest asshole corporations, because my family lives 3 hours away.
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Beau Skunky's avatar
Beau Skunky
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Friendship, Art, and Magic (7 Years) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends

Life is but a dream
@*sigh*
Perhaps people should do good things for others every day, but I see nothing wrong with having certain days focused on that. Holidays are just for fun for the most part. Much like how watching a certain TV show that comes on once a week can be fun for people.
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Beau Skunky's avatar
Beau Skunky
Artist
Magnificent Metadata Maniac - #1 Assistant
Cool Crow - "Caw!" An awesome tagger
Friendship, Art, and Magic (7 Years) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends

Life is but a dream
@Lizuka
I understand, but somehow it came off somewhat like, "If you don’t like something give up, and continue to be an anti-social shut-in, and miss out on something that could be fun, and not spend time with your friends" to me.

I don’t know, to many mixed messages/implications to me, despite their good intentions with the moral/plot.
I know I don’t like being forced to participate in things, but her friends didn’t seem to be "forcing" her, and just wanted to spend time with her, and show her how fun it could be, and that there’s more to the holiday then "scary things," and it’s about having fun. But Flutters just became a flanderizied craven coward, and wouldn’t come out of her shell, and when she did she felt she went overboard, and just gave up it felt like.
It also felt like it kinda contradicts Pinkie’s lesson of "sometimes it’s fun being scared" in the previous Halloween episode, among other lessons about socializing, having an open-mind, and such in the show.

To be honest, I’m not even entirely sure why the ending/moral bothers me so much.
I can see the good intentions with it as you guys pointed out, but I also get bad implications from it too like the ones I mentioned.
I want to accept it for it’s good sides to the moral, but I can’t for some reason. Something about it doesn’t sit well with me.

@*sigh*
There are good things to about holidays, I feel, but to each their own. I think you’re focusing to much on the negatives.
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*sigh*'s avatar
*sigh*
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012

@Beau Skunky
Jehovah’s Witness, but also because I just don’t want to. Having a pre-ordained day of the year to do a specific kind of celebration every year makes it robotic, easily open to corporate exploitation and (among the poorer classes especially) makes people have to make hard choices between either taking part in the festivities or having funds that could be used elsewhere.

Many holidays that feature sharing of some sort can also easily lead to resentment if one party fails to live up to the expectations of another, from forgetting about Valentine’s Day whilst in a relationship to poorer kids wondering why "Santa" doesn’t like them as much as the rich kid down the street. Even Halloween isn’t free from this as you get the occasional case of kids who’ve not gotten good candy vandalizing houses.
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Lizuka
@Beau Skunky
The moral was more supposed to be, "Just because your friends enjoy doing something doesn’t mean you’re obligated to. Try it out and if you don’t like it, that’s okay." Which I think is a good moral to have.
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Evowizard25's avatar
Evowizard25
@Beau Skunky
My family celebrates Halloween, but I honestly don’t care much for the holiday. I’m not as sociable as I was as a kid, so I found it a tad bit uncomfortable dealing with all the people and whatnot and the costumes. {Love the specials though.} It doesn’t help that I work retail now and just dealing with it is groan inducing.
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