It doesn’t matter if Cozy Glow made the suggestion as she would only benefit if Tirek sticked to the plan. What matters is that Tirek did stick to the plan because he was in a position where he could serve himself by abandoning. As for the second part, what Tirek said is that no one can control all the chaos magic specifically, as only Discord can control it. It contradicts the fact that Tirek did in fact control all that chaos magic earlier, but oh well. This was after Tirek shared the magic in the bell anyway.

And Tirek benefited from sharing the power with the other two. As dumb as it sounds, he was the one that said that they couldn’t control that power. Contradiction or not, he said it and I don’t think he had a reason to lie about it.

I already stated if Chrysalis failed to have the revelation that what they were doing is friendship, they ALL would have better off, including Chrysalis. What you’re overlooking is WHY Chrysalis intervened. It’s not because she’s evil, it’s because of her idiosyncratic reasons for being anti-friendship. And no, while Chrysalis was the catalyst you’re overlooking the fact they didn’t have to agree with her, but they still did. Right afterwards they expressed their agreement with her despite not being changelings so they don’t have to worry about becoming “infected”. This thread is going nowhere as we’re just repeating ourselves so it is OVER.

And? It was still Chrysalis that did it. She is just as guilty as the other two for not accepting it, but at least the other two aren’t catalysts. That makes her ever so slightly more guilty. And really, both Tirek and Cozy had similar reasons for rejecting it with Cozy believing that her way of Friendship was the right way and Tirek having his brother’s example. All three of them rejected it due to their pride, but it was Chrysalis that caused it. And if you want this “thread” to stop all you have to do is stop replying.

So you agree that Cozy is not the most redeemable and thus singling her out for redemption is irrational, got it. We are never going to agree on whether Cozy Glow or Chrysalis is more evil because we clearly have different ideas of what evil means. I for one certainly don’t equate “rejecting friendship” with being evil. I am going to say though that Chrysalis is not as sadistic as you think she is as she did let Spike go without hurting him.

How did you come to that conclution? Just because Tirek is the least evil doesn’t mean that he would be the most redeemable. Younger minds are usually easier to change, after all. If I can say one thing for certain on the matter though, Cozy would be the safest to redeem. Yea, Chrysalis did let Spike go and she isn’t as evil or sadistic as many make her out to be but neither is Cozy. All three of them had their small moments of mercy.

It doesn’t matter if Cozy Glow made the suggestion as she would only benefit if Tirek sticked to the plan. What matters is that Tirek did stick to the plan because he was in a position where he could serve himself by abandoning. As for the second part, what Tirek said is that no one can control all the chaos magic specifically, as only Discord can control it. It contradicts the fact that Tirek did in fact control all that chaos magic earlier, but oh well. This was after Tirek shared the magic in the bell anyway.

I already stated if Chrysalis failed to have the revelation that what they were doing is friendship, they ALL would have better off, including Chrysalis. What you’re overlooking is WHY Chrysalis intervened. It’s not because she’s evil, it’s because of her idiosyncratic reasons for being anti-friendship. And no, while Chrysalis was the catalyst you’re overlooking the fact they didn’t have to agree with her, but they still did. Right afterwards they expressed their agreement with her despite not being changelings so they don’t have to worry about becoming “infected”. This thread is going nowhere as we’re just repeating ourselves so it is OVER.

So you agree that Cozy is not the most redeemable and thus singling her out for redemption is irrational, got it. We are never going to agree on whether Cozy Glow or Chrysalis is more evil because we clearly have different ideas of what evil means. I for one certainly don’t equate “rejecting friendship” with being evil. I am going to say though that Chrysalis is not as sadistic as you think she is as she did let Spike go without hurting him.

@SSJGPiccles
I’m just trying to keep things light. This seems to be something that gets people really worked up.
My personal feeling is that the writers gave up. Or they had plans and ran out of time.
A peculiar end to a series that pushed friendship,to ultimately decide it’s better to reject some people. Which wouldn’t be that big a deal,if they hadn’t gone back to unreject characters like Gilda.

I wasn’t talking about with the bell, I was referring to Chrysalis’s magic. He could have betrayed them then and there. It would have probably have been foolish because he would have probably have gone done like Sombra as a result, but the show was trying to communicate that he returned the magic to Chrysalis because he had come to care for her, not for practical reasons. Regarding the bell though, you misread the scene. What you missed is that Cozy Glow couldn’t control Discord’s chaos magic, while Tirek was sharing the other magic that was already present in the bell before they drained Discord. There is no implication that Tirek couldn’t have handled all that magic himself, it seemed to be less that he had in Twilight’s Kingdom.

Wasn’t it Cozy who suggested that Tirek give Chrysalis’s magic back first? And didn’t Tirek say that no one could handle that much magic (again, stupid)?

I’m not overlooking anything, again, the issue is you not understanding what the real revelation was. Together they came to the epiphany that they enjoy helping others, yes. They all came this conclusion, it was never stopped. What you’re missing is that AFTER they came to this conclusion, they decided to give up on it anyway as a result of Chrysalis’s revelation that it was friendship. The issue wasn’t that they failed to get some revelation, it’s that they decided to go against what they learned anyway because they didn’t want to be like the Mane Six.

But surely, having that revelation be uninterrupted by Chrysalis would have helped to make them better people. And yes, it was stopped when Chrysalis had to shout out “NOOO!” followed by a speech about how she’s not gonna embrace friendship. I’m sory, but that was on the changeling.

Sure, you can be both evil and insane, and I’m not saying Chrysalis isn’t evil, but that the reason she shut them down is not because she’s evil, but because she’s insane. As it is, I see there being a clear ordinal relationship where by end of it Tirek is clearly less evil than Cozy Glow, with Chrysalis’s evilness being unclear as it’s hard as what to attribute to evil and what to insanity, but I’d place her as being between Cozy Glow and Tirek. They’re all still evil, but they are making progress to becoming good.

Yes, Tirek is probably the least evil of the group, but at least Cozy doesn’t bring the group down lower unlike Chrysalis, who in the end, was the one who rejected friendship the most (and was the most sadistic of the three).

Sombra’s characterization in the show was just bad. It’s not so much that he had no backstory as he was just completely flat. At least his bad characterization didn’t matter so much in his first episode as he basically just acted as a force of nature rather than as a real villain.

Yea, he at least had a bit of a cool factor there, being based on Sauron and all.

While I think they did a better job with Discord’s redemption than any of the other character’s, I’ve come to the conclusion that redeeming Discord was the worst mistake the show ever made because of where it ended up going. It even beats out them making Twilight a princess far too prematurely. The problem is that you can’t have an omnipotent protagonist because then there is no conflict and thus not story. So mostly they just had to write Discord out, but when they didn’t they needed to either find some excuse to nerf him, or to turn him into an antagonist even though he’s not longer a villain. As a result Discord became pathetic and petty. The fact the Discord’s reformation never ended up becoming justified also served to turn Celestia into a jerk as there was no reason this asshole deserved redemption any more than any of the others, and he certainly wasn’t any easier to turn than the others either. The real reason the writer’s did it was because Discord is entertaining and fans like him, but boy was it a bad move from a story standpoint. With that being said, it they just stuck to the Fluttershy episodes they could have made it work. The reason those episodes work is because they put Discord in a situation where he isn’t omnipotent without having to take away his powers — even though he can’t warp reality, he can’t bend her to his will and be satisfied with what he did. The best Superman comics are good for a similar reason.

Yea, it was a terrible idea and made Celestia out to be a hypocrit. They could have made it work. The hive rescue mission and the Hearts and Hooves Day episode proved that, but they keep letting him get away with so much despite being reformed.

I wasn’t talking about with the bell, I was referring to Chrysalis’s magic. He could have betrayed them then and there. It would have probably have been foolish because he would have probably have gone done like Sombra as a result, but the show was trying to communicate that he returned the magic to Chrysalis because he had come to care for her, not for practical reasons. Regarding the bell though, you misread the scene. What you missed is that Cozy Glow couldn’t control Discord’s chaos magic, while Tirek was sharing the other magic that was already present in the bell before they drained Discord. There is no implication that Tirek couldn’t have handled all that magic himself, it seemed to be less that he had in Twilight’s Kingdom.

I’m not overlooking anything, again, the issue is you not understanding what the real revelation was. Together they came to the epiphany that they enjoy helping others, yes. They all came this conclusion, it was never stopped. What you’re missing is that AFTER they came to this conclusion, they decided to give up on it anyway as a result of Chrysalis’s revelation that it was friendship. The issue wasn’t that they failed to get some revelation, it’s that they decided to go against what they learned anyway because they didn’t want to be like the Mane Six.

Sure, you can be both evil and insane, and I’m not saying Chrysalis isn’t evil, but that the reason she shut them down is not because she’s evil, but because she’s insane. As it is, I see there being a clear ordinal relationship where by end of it Tirek is clearly less evil than Cozy Glow, with Chrysalis’s evilness being unclear as it’s hard as what to attribute to evil and what to insanity, but I’d place her as being between Cozy Glow and Tirek. They’re all still evil, but they are making progress to becoming good.

Sombra’s characterization in the show was just bad. It’s not so much that he had no backstory as he was just completely flat. At least his bad characterization didn’t matter so much in his first episode as he basically just acted as a force of nature rather than as a real villain.

While I think they did a better job with Discord’s redemption than any of the other character’s, I’ve come to the conclusion that redeeming Discord was the worst mistake the show ever made because of where it ended up going. It even beats out them making Twilight a princess far too prematurely. The problem is that you can’t have an omnipotent protagonist because then there is no conflict and thus not story. So mostly they just had to write Discord out, but when they didn’t they needed to either find some excuse to nerf him, or to turn him into an antagonist even though he’s not longer a villain. As a result Discord became pathetic and petty. The fact the Discord’s reformation never ended up becoming justified also served to turn Celestia into a jerk as there was no reason this asshole deserved redemption any more than any of the others, and he certainly wasn’t any easier to turn than the others either. The real reason the writer’s did it was because Discord is entertaining and fans like him, but boy was it a bad move from a story standpoint. With that being said, it they just stuck to the Fluttershy episodes they could have made it work. The reason those episodes work is because they put Discord in a situation where he isn’t omnipotent without having to take away his powers — even though he can’t warp reality, he can’t bend her to his will and be satisfied with what he did. The best Superman comics are good for a similar reason.

What Cozy Glow did at the beginning was not the same as what Tirek and Chrysalis did at the end. For Chrysalis it’s not exactly clear either way, but Tirek’s behavior can clearly be contrasted with Cozy Glow’s in the ending of the end. When Tirek was given immense power he gave it to his allies. When Cozy Glow was given immense power she tried to use it to destroy her allies. That makes it pretty clear to me who the bad one is.

Tirek gave it to his allies because he knew that he couldn’t control it (for some reason). Tirek is the more mature and level headed one while Cozy’s an immature child. Their both evil.

What you’re overlooking with Chrysalis’s revelation is that “friendship” means something completely different to Chrysalis than it does for Cozy Glow. For Cozy Glow, it’s a tool for gaining power. For Chrysalis, it turns you colorful and destroys your personality. From this it should be obvious which of the two is evil and which is insane. There is a reason it was Chrysalis was the one who ruined the moment, and the fact the rest of them let along with her is a reflection on their characters’,not hers.

And what your overlooking is that the revelation wasn’t specifically about friendship, but simply learning to enjoy helping others. And feeling good for helping others isn’t exactly using friendship as a tool, is it? And while all three of them snapped out of it, its still worth noting that it was because of Chrysalis. You can be both evil and insane.

Regarding Cozy Glow in Tartarus, yeah it was absurd, but I took that as a visual gag that wasn’t meant to be taken seriously as she was just going to get reformed in Season 9 with the rest of them. Sure enough, they have them be freed in Season 9 and spent the whole season making them more sympathetic…only to turn them to stone at the end at Discord’s suggestion. I guess he turns ponies to stone after all!

Yep, they really messed that one up. And they ruined Discord even more. Also, even as a visual gag it was bad because it painted the hero’s in kind of a bad light. A better visual gag would, ironically, be some the things Discord does with his magic because that makes sense for him and is true to his character, reformed or not.

Sombra couldn’t have had an example made out of him if he wasn’t an arrogant asshole.

Honestly the comics did a far better job with him. Not neccesarely because he got reformed but because they gave him a backstory, relationships and more characterization. In the show he wasn’t even a fun asshole, just an asshole.

With that being said, fuck Discord too. Seriously, fuck him.

The later seasons really ruined him. He could have been such a great character. Maybe even a proper mentor figure and not a wannabe teacher.

@Ganondox

How is Chrysalis irredeemable? The fact she’s insane just makes her more sympathetic as it means she doesn’t really understand how her actions are bringing about her own ruin. I’d say though that except for Cozy Glow are the villains were growing in the direction towards redemption, with at least Tirek and Chrysalis learning to help each other even if they were nominally opposed to friendship. Cozy Glow just didn’t really change much and remained a backstabber.

I never said she was 100% irredeemable. Just that she’s the only villain the show has actually presented evidence for her not being capable of change.

Starlight has actually tried to reach out to her before and she turned it down despite the objective benefits because she was just that stubborn and petty.

Cozy and Tirek have never been offered anything like that. There’s no incentive for them to change and everything to gain by winning.

Meanwhile, Chrysalis is plainly self-destructive and tends to drag people down to her level when she associates with them. She did it to her hive and she did it to Cozy and Tirek in frenemies.

How is Chrysalis irredeemable? The fact she’s insane just makes her more sympathetic as it means she doesn’t really understand how her actions are bringing about her own ruin. I’d say though that except for Cozy Glow are the villains were growing in the direction towards redemption, with at least Tirek and Chrysalis learning to help each other even if they were nominally opposed to friendship. Cozy Glow just didn’t really change much and remained a backstabber.

What Cozy Glow did at the beginning was not the same as what Tirek and Chrysalis did at the end. For Chrysalis it’s not exactly clear either way, but Tirek’s behavior can clearly be contrasted with Cozy Glow’s in the ending of the end. When Tirek was given immense power he gave it to his allies. When Cozy Glow was given immense power she tried to use it to destroy her allies. That makes it pretty clear to me who the bad one is.

What you’re overlooking with Chrysalis’s revelation is that “friendship” means something completely different to Chrysalis than it does for Cozy Glow. For Cozy Glow, it’s a tool for gaining power. For Chrysalis, it turns you colorful and destroys your personality. From this it should be obvious which of the two is evil and which is insane. There is a reason it was Chrysalis was the one who ruined the moment, and the fact the rest of them let along with her is a reflection on their characters’,not hers.

Regarding Cozy Glow in Tartarus, yeah it was absurd, but I took that as a visual gag that wasn’t meant to be taken seriously as she was just going to get reformed in Season 9 with the rest of them. Sure enough, they have them be freed in Season 9 and spent the whole season making them more sympathetic…only to turn them to stone at the end at Discord’s suggestion. I guess he turns ponies to stone after all!

Sombra couldn’t have had an example made out of him if he wasn’t an arrogant asshole.

With that being said, fuck Discord too. Seriously, fuck him.

@Ganondox

Cozy Glow wasn’t trying to get to work together because she was good, it’s because she’s a strategist who understands the advantage of working together in order to further her own goals.

Like how Tirek and Chrysalis started working together.

That’s who she has always been. As for Chrysalis, she did not stop them having a relegation. It’s actually the exact opposite, she had the revelation that it was friendship and thus is bad. Ironically if she never bad the revelation she might have gone on to do fine as she particular reasons to be against friendship specifically, as she didn’t want to suffer the “fate” of her hive. However, she probably would have been completely fine with friendship by another name. So, no, you haven’t refuted anything.

Funny then, how Cozy. The filly who seemed so proud that she was right about her way of friendship was correct did not snap herself out of potentially accepting Twilight’s way. Again, it was Chrysalis who stopped the moment. Had it gone uninterrupted it they might have even reformed later on. I’d say that Chrysalis was in no way better then Cozy and may have even been worse.

Anyway, it’s not this image specifically, I’ve noticed a huge trend of Cozy Glow apologism.

That has been going on since she was sent to Tartarus and its not neccesarely apologism as very few people actually believe that she did nothing wrong. Its people expressing dissapointment and frustration with the nature of her punishment and that no attempt to reform her was ever made. Chrysalis has similar “supporters”.

As for making one about Sombra, no, fuck him, he got what he deserved.

To be fair bringing back someone from death/the ether only to send him to his death to teach a lesson/intimidate other villains into working together is kinda fucked up. Kinda made me feel bad for him.

Cozy Glow wasn’t trying to get to work together because she was good, it’s because she’s a strategist who understands the advantage of working together in order to further her own goals.

That’s who she has always been. As for Chrysalis, she did not stop them having a relegation. It’s actually the exact opposite, she had the revelation that it was friendship and thus is bad. Ironically if she never bad the revelation she might have gone on to do fine as she particular reasons to be against friendship specifically, as she didn’t want to suffer the “fate” of her hive. However, she probably would have been completely fine with friendship by another name. So, no, you haven’t refuted anything.

Anyway, it’s not this image specifically, I’ve noticed a huge trend of Cozy Glow apologism.

As for making one about Sombra, no, fuck him, he got what he deserved.

@Ganondox
She was also the only one at first who actually tried to get them to work together and it was Chrysalis who stopped all three of them from having a revelation.

@Ganondox
And most people here aren’t. Not every image has to feature all three of them. You are free to make something similar with Sombra for example.

@Ganondox
Neither of the three are irrideemable. Frenemies proved that. Even Cozy managed to work together and seem to enjoy helping others.