Happy Birthday, MLP:FiM! MLP:FiM turns 9 years old this year! Let's celebrate with an art event!
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Frustration in Excelsis's avatar
Frustration in Excelsis
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@Background Pony #0EF5

That’s a very interesting point. I would expect it would work like that with episodes, too — outside of a few big names like "The Return of Harmony", "MMM", etc., I would expect episode rankings have more to do with which episodes are freshest in people’s minds than anything. It would explain why these charts tend to be topped fairly often by episodes from the most recent season or half season.
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I’m wondering how much of S7’s margin of victory in this poll can be attributed to its being the most recent season, and hence the one freshest in mind. And on a probably-related point, I do find it interesting how much S6 fell between last year’s poll (when it trounced S1) and this year’s (when the two were virtually tied).
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Beau Skunky
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Friendship, Art, and Magic (7 Years) - Celebrated Derpibooru's seventh year anniversary with friends

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@Background Pony #0891
Still, it would’ve been nice to see, and given Sunset’s character some closure to her "dark past" after how she acted torwards Celestia in that one IDW tie-in prequel comic. (Which was included with the movie, wasn’t it? So many kids got to see it, so they’re probably left thinking about it too.)

Yeah, true, though that’s actually a reason why Sunset fans hate Starlight, because they don’t understand that. (I wouldn’t mind Sunset appearing in the show, even as a one-time thing, don’t get me wrong.)
They feel it’s unfair Starlight’s allowed to be in both series, but Sunset isn’t. EqG is the only way to get their Sunset fix, and sense the show has more episodes, and EqG is just finally getting it’s own miniseries, they feel Starlight has gotten more exposure. I believe this is why they feel Starlight is a "spotlight-stealing Mary-Su," (and got angry over daring to "overshadow" their waifu) even though she doesn’t appear in every episode, and as pointed out, Sunset gets alot of exposure in EqG, so the same could be said about her. RR is practically the Sunset Shimmer movie. (Meanwhile, Starlight was never prominent in any of the movies.)

Though, personally, I kinda liked how when they both finally met, Sunset & Starlight got along alot better then their fans do. I wouldn’t mind seeing them become good friends.
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@Beau Skunky
Wasn’t the whole reconciliation thing a part of that one new book? It’s something I guess. At the same time I think after all this time, and zero mention of Celestia, any sort of reconciliation just feels forced to me. It just comes out of nowhere when Sunset never brings up Celestia. It’s more of a fan thing at this point.

I agree with your points, except maybe saying she isn’t allowed on the show. I think it would be more accurate to say she was never planned to be on the show. Even the fact that she plays a much bigger role was something unexpected as in the original draft for RR she played a background role.
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@Supes
Yeah, they kinda overly-woobiefied Sunset, and as you said it seemed to of worked too well to make fans like her. So well in fact, some get angry if Sunset doesn’t get most of the focus in EqG. (And ironically, before "Rainbow Rocks" came out, Sunset had as many haters as Starlight, Flurry Heart, or winged Twilight did.)
Due to her not being allowed in the main Pony series, some fans use EqG to get their Sunset-fix, so this caused alot of drama from Sunset fans when Starlight was allowed to guest star in EqG. But it was only a one time thing anyway, and Sunset has plenty of exposure in EqG to the point she’s sometimes more the main character then the others. I don’t think Sunset always needs most of the focus, or always has to be the one saving the day.
I can’t help but think if Sunset was in Starlight’s role in the Pony show instead, she’d be the one getting all the criticism, or occasional hate instead due to how fickle this fanbase can be at times.

As for Starlight learning the same lesson over, and over, the same could be said for some of the other characters. Fluttershy even lampshades it in "Fame and Misfortune."
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Supes
@Villain Pony
Starlight has a big problem of never having the lessons stick from episode to episode.

I wanna know why Starlight keeps learning the same thing over and over! Be responsible already!
(I kid, you don’t come off like that, but I do think she makes a bit of progress each time – and reverting to her old habits occasioanlly is both entertaining and realistic, something which Sunset should’ve been doing IMO).

@Beau Skunky
"Oh nobody likes me! I’m so sad & cute! Feel sorry for me, viewers!"

Yeah, I don’t really get why people say Sunset had some great struggle and overcome terrible odds or whatever. She didn’t struggle with becoming good at friendship, to the point where in her very next appearance after being defeated she performs better than Twilight – something that took Starlight, what, two seasons? Unless we count "A Royal Problem", but that’s still a season and a half before she outdid the Princess of Friendship at friendship once.

All Sunset had to do in Rainbow Rocks was sulk in the background, bearing a very minimal disdain from her classmates (which, okay, I don’t really think it would’ve been better if everyone outright hated her, just like I don’t think it would’ve been better if everyone hated/distrusted Starlight at first: that’s just not as entertaining for me as watching a character’s struggle with themselves). Then she slapped some sense into the others and sung a song. The worst part is, the "feel sorry for me" act and her meek angelic disposition in RR completely worked on a lot of people, and I firmly believe that that, coupled with the general greatness of RR as a movie, made everyone believe Sunset is an amazing character when she actually jumped from bland villain to waifu-bait and has been slowly becoming more and more of a mary sue since.
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@Villain Pony
@Beau Skunky
Thing is, flawed characters can be annoying too if they never learn form their flaws either. Starlight has a big problem of never having the lessons stick from episode to episode. She learns that magic can’t fix everything only to use magic to fix everything just to learn that she can’t use magic to fix everything.

I don’t think that’s the case for her. comparing ELTSD to A Royal Problem, her reactions were drastically different. in ELTSD, she doesn’t aware of the problem until Twiglight told. but in A Royal Problem she immediately acknowledged that she fucked up, and took responsiblity from her action. and in Uncommon Bond, although, there’s nothing wrong with it, she immediately dispelled the age regression(or an illusion?) spell when Sunburst was upset. I think it’s really well-handled and realistic that her quirk wasn’t simply disappeared after one episode. it still sticked to her but she knows it’s "wrong" and "try not to" solve her problem with it.
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@Villain Pony

Also, she says she doesn’t want past to define her yet keeps bringing it up almost every time, in joke form no less.


That… does sort of bug me; not so much the way she’s hung up on her past — that much I can understand — as much as the way her, and to be honest other characters and the show as whole, gloss over and make light of it. Like that one moment from the beginning of "No Second Prances":

Twilight: That’s the best part! You have to make a new friend!
Starlight: New friends? Hey, maybe I’ll just force friendships by magically enslaving the entire population of Ponyville!
Twilight: Starlight!
Starlight: Kidding! Heh heh…


I generally prefer to think of the way moralistic works like FiM work by imagining how any given lesson or situation they present would work out in real life, since their whole point is to teach lessons for real life… and joking like that about your own past crimes and abuses of people’s rights is just in awful, awful taste. I’m glad she herself doesn’t really do that anymore — I haven’t noticed much in the way of this tendency in Season 7, which is good — but the way I feel they mishandled her arc in Season 6 through stuff like this is still my biggest hang-up regarding Starlight.
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@Beau Skunky
Thing is, flawed characters can be annoying too if they never learn form their flaws either. Starlight has a big problem of never having the lessons stick from episode to episode. She learns that magic can’t fix everything only to use magic to fix everything just to learn that she can’t use magic to fix everything. Also, she says she doesn’t want past to define her yet keeps bringing it up almost every time, in joke form no less.
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@Supes
If she was still struggling with friendship and being good, not only would it have been vastly more entertaining to watch her, it would’ve somewhat justified her weird situation re: staying human. It would be MUCH easier to believe she’s unhealthily attached to this world where people like/tolerate her and teach her to be better, as well as that she doesn’t actually want to face Celestia or her parents because she doesn’t think she’s all better yet.

That’s very well thought out. That’s kinda one thing I prefer about Starlight, she occasionally struggles with being good, or at times doesn’t understand what good is. Sunset never had that problem, in "Rainbow Rocks" her only problem was, "Oh nobody likes me! I’m so sad & cute! Feel sorry for me, viewers!"

I guess it’s a shame that Hasbro/DHX want to keep both MLP & EqG separate as it would be nice if Sunset reconciled with Celestia, and such as you stated. Sunset’s backstory is definitely the most wasted. Frankly, I’m amazed a character from Starlight’s past has become a recurring character, so at least her backstory (while a bit cliché) wasn’t just written off.

@Supes
And also after the movies, the shorts keep giving here these "awesome and hip" hobbies and talents like comic drawing, graffiti, video gaming, etc. etc. in addition to singing and playing guitar. It just comes off as them trying to make her cool but not knowing how.

It especially got a bit much when she became a sushi chef. (Probably just to tie in with the toyline.) ’Cause everyone loves Japanese stuff, right? Next thing you know, she’ll be a straight-A student, great at sports… Oh wait, she is…
(Ok, somebody plz explain to me how Starlight is the bigger Mary-Su?)

I definitely agree that evil Sunset & good Sunset are practically different characters. The only hint we see of her former self, is her occasional temper, (like when she got upset at Trixie or Glasses Twilight) but even that is ignored nowadays. I guess they don’t want her to look too mean, but I kinda miss that character flaw of Sunset’s. I prefer flawed characters.
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Supes
I think I’d be able to ignore everything else about her and enjoy her character just fine if she had a worse personality. With Starlight, even when they don’t bring it up it’s hard to forget her past and her flaws, which adds depth to her character. With Sunset, it’s like they replaced the old entitled, manipulative, self-absorbed bully with a completely different character who is this perfect little angel. If she was still struggling with friendship and being good, not only would it have been vastly more entertaining to watch her, it would’ve somewhat justified her weird situation re: staying human. It would be MUCH easier to believe she’s unhealthily attached to this world where people like/tolerate her and teach her to be better, as well as that she doesn’t actually want to face Celestia or her parents because she doesn’t think she’s all better yet.
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she just did a 180 after being defeated without any realistic psychological reason to do so, which ends up looking more like brainwashing (what also contributes to that is how she doesn’t have a trace of her old personality after that, nor any interest in going to Equestria to see Celestia or her parents).

I used to like Sunset fine enough in the original movie and Rainbow Rocks, but as the movies went on she never really did anything interesting, her character never went anywhere, and all the interesting parts of her backstory got forever ignored. I don’t really understand her character, what drives her and what she wants out of life, because I don’t understand why she just stays as a high school student in the human world and never addresses any of her past. The best I can figure is that she likes her friends and wants to be with them, but that seems like a rather unhealthy reason to ignore everything else. Imagine if you went on vacation, made your first friends there and decided to stay, abandoning your original education, your family and everything else.


That’s actually a pretty good summation of my own issues with Sunset’s character. I still like her, but I do think are serious issues with how her character is handled.
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@Beau Skunky
My opinion of the two is kinda like yours but exaggerated. I don’t think Sunset has almost any personality or flaws, while Starlight has probably the most out of any characters in pony, AND it’s well-utilized. I do disagree about her turn, unless you mean that we could’ve had her as a villain in more episodes. In the episode itself I think her turn (unlike her backstory reveal) was handled really well. The backstory reveal admittedly could’ve been much better, especially after the overly dramatic way she screams "YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ME?" Though unlike many people I also don’t have a problem with the backstory itself, just the way it was presented (really underwhelmingly). By the way, Sunset’s turn was much worse IMO: she just did a 180 after being defeated without any realistic psychological reason to do so, which ends up looking more like brainwashing (what also contributes to that is how she doesn’t have a trace of her old personality after that, nor any interest in going to Equestria to see Celestia or her parents).

I used to like Sunset fine enough in the original movie and Rainbow Rocks, but as the movies went on she never really did anything interesting, her character never went anywhere, and all the interesting parts of her backstory got forever ignored. I don’t really understand her character, what drives her and what she wants out of life, because I don’t understand why she just stays as a high school student in the human world and never addresses any of her past. The best I can figure is that she likes her friends and wants to be with them, but that seems like a rather unhealthy reason to ignore everything else. Imagine if you went on vacation, made your first friends there and decided to stay, abandoning your original education, your family and everything else.

And also after the movies, the shorts keep giving here these "awesome and hip" hobbies and talents like comic drawing, graffiti, video gaming, etc. etc. in addition to singing and playing guitar. It just comes off as them trying to make her cool but not knowing how.
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@Supes
She does seem less flawed, and generic in personality compared to Starlight.
Starlight’s only real problem is how overly hurried her heel-face-turn was.

I used to dislike Starlight, but honestly I tire of Sunset-fans always bashing her, and frankly I prefer her over Sunset now.
I also find it ironic, that people hate Starlight for being in one EqG episode, and "overshadowing" Sunset, (in ONE episode) ’cause in a way, Sunset overshadows the Mane 6 now in EqG at times. Heck, the CMC, and other characters hardly do as much as Sunset in EqG, or hardly even get to talk.

I hate to sound like I’m bashing Sunset, (there are some nice things about her) but it’s just annoying people love Sunset for the same reasons they hate Starlight.
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