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My personal take on equestrian history, thoughts?
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darknessRising24's avatar
darknessRising24
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Perfect Pony Plot Provider - Uploader of 10+ images with 350 upvotes or more (Questionable/Explicit)

Ruler of the Galaxy
@eternaljonathan#2

@eternaljonathan#2
The whole thing about starswirl being sealed away before the tree even existed contradicts the show too. Because if the tree didn’t exist before he was sealed there’s no way the spell that made twilight an alicorn could have existed either seeing as it involved the elements themselves.


The spell he was working on didn’t directly involve the elements themselves, just ponies in general. When Twilight cast the spell the Elements simply seemed to activate due to their connection to the mane six.
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Ryodraco
@Background Pony #41A2
Still not getting where you got the idea that Chrysalis and Celestia had any kind of relationship in the past, beyond knowing the other existed.

And what is a "rugged land referee"?

Also, Chrysalis has never been said to use black/dark magic, only changeling magic.
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Background Pony #41A2
They could be a rugged land referee and the cause of the quarrel that Celestia did not give Chrysales the love and attention they needed and the Crisales may have escaped into the Forbidden Forest and got the Black Magic
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Ryodraco
@Background Pony #41A2
Most of what you just said has no basis as far as I can see, and I am curious where you got those ideas (if you are referring to the text you posted, it’d be nice to have a source on that). We don’t know who defeated Tirek originally, only that he was captured and imprisoned in Tartarus for his crimes. And we don’t know if the animated series version of Chrysalis was even alive 1000 years ago (so far its only the comics that show her to be that long lived as far as I know). And there is zero indication that Chrysalis and Celestia ruled together. Heck we know from the season seven finale that Celestia and Luna are not that far apart in age, as they were both student-aged and not full grown when Starswirl was sealed away some years over a thousand years ago.
Background Pony #41A2
Background Pony #DFFC
We also know that Samobra, Terike and Descord were defeated by the two sisters except Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis Nightmare Moon defeated by Celestia alone. Chrysalis do not know who defeated them so far. This means that the period between Nightmare moon Chrysalis is 100 years as I expect and I also expect that before The birth of Luna was Celestia and Chrysalis governing the land equestria and I expect that I are the badlands and got a quarrel between them and I also expect that Crisales fled and appeared as we know in season 2
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Background Pony #41A2

ونحن نعلم أيضا أن ساموبرا، تيريك و ديكورد هزم من قبل الشقيقتين إلا كابوس القمر و كريساليس كابوس القمر هزمها سيليستيا وحدها. كريساليس لا يعرفون الذين هزمهم حتى الآن. وهذا يعني أن الفترة بين كابوس القمر كابوساليس هو 100 سنة كما أتوقع، وأنا أتوقع أيضا أنه قبل ولادة لونا كان سيليستيا و كريساليس يحكم الأرض إكتريا و أتوقع أن أنا الأراضي الوعرة و حصلت على مشاجرة بينهما و أنا أيضا نتوقع أن كريساليس فروا وظهر كما نعرف في الموسم 2
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Ryodraco
@Background Pony #41A2
That’s because in the series (unlike the comics) we have no indications yet how Chrysalis fits into Equestria’s history before her invasion of Canterlot. The closest we get is Thorax mentioning changelings have kept up their lifestyle of feeding on love for centuries.
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MrSeyker
@eternaljonathan#2

Honestly, that’s all on you.

The fact that the spell predates the elements and Cadance ascended before they were rediscovered are enough evidence that the elements are not essential to alicornhood.

I accept the new status quo.
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eternaljonathan#2
@MrSeyker
The elements are not conduits they are actual magical items that’s power can only be harnessed by those who represent them and friendship. And saying he used ponhenge is also a stretch because if the spell involved ponhenge then it would have affected ponhenge instead of the elements. Finally the whole retconning and ignoring the books and comics has to be the staffs dumbest action they’ve taken because the more non cannon they are the less people will want to buy them. Why should people invest time and money into stories that don’t matter at all? because that’s exactly why fans do buy them, to expand the lore and characters outside of the show, but since they’re non cannon they don’t expand the lore or the characters no matter how good or interesting the stories are. All it does is peeve off fans like me who hate finales like this because it’s a big middle finger to all the time and money I invested to try and learn more about the mlp universe. And all I get is mediocre excuses to cover up the staff writer’s bad writing and disregard for those comics and books I liked so much
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MrSeyker
@eternaljonathan#2

The elements are the power conduits that facilitated Twilight’s ascension into alicornhood, but Roydraco is right.

When Starswirl started working on the spell, which we must remember he never finished, he probably was either working on the assumption the virtues could be the conduit, or maybe even the ancient magic in Ponhenge (which was where Stygian made his failed attempt to replicate the Pillar’s magic, and what the elements were used for once Pony of Shadows destroyed the location).

Powerful magic is deffinitely needed to make a normal pony into an Alicorn, but not specifically the elements.

There is also Cadance’s own existence hinting to this. While the books are always ready to be retconned into obvlivion if the staff chooses to, the books established that Cadance was transformed by an external force too, and while the show hasn’t even bothered to explain her existance, Flurry Heart’s birth strongly hints Cadance was transformed.

And this was way back before Twilight even left Canterlot, and therefore the elements were not a factor.
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eternaljonathan#2
".@Ryodraco
It was hinted at the end of the season 3 opener that Celestia was planning to try and turn Twilight into an Alicorn, so we if we’re making assumptions here we could also assume she left them with her for that spell in the finale. Second Twilight needed the elements to also fix her friends as well to reverse the effects of the spell. The side effects were from the fact Twilight casted the incomplete spell on the elements without caution meaning that spell was built around the magic of the elements, and while the pillars magic is similar to the elements they are not the same. Also based on the fact Cadence went to the same plane to meet Celestia when she ascended and that her scenario was very different it’s most likely the whole plane thing was probably more of a pit stop before the transformation was complete. And can you honestly believe that the writers really planned that far ahead four whole seasons ago? Of course not.
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Ryodraco
@eternaljonathan#2
Technically the energy that transformed Twilight seemed to come from inside herself (set off by Celestia). The beams from the elements only seemed to send her to that astral plane to meet with Celestia. Looking back, Star Swirl’s unfinished spell made no mention of the elements (and they were left with Twilight in case Discord got out of hand), hence why Twilight was shocked when she found out it had an unintended effect on them.

I just don’t see it as that much of a stretch, especially when Star Swirl almost instantly recognizes the magic of the Tree of Harmony as being his own and the pillars.
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eternaljonathan#2
@Ryodraco
No it was the elements themselves that fired those beams that transformed Twilight. That’s far too specific and involving for the elements for the spell to coincidentally affect them as they did. And while it was never stated in the show based on what we saw and the fact that the elements were probably left with Twilight for that very purpose by Celestia It is more likely that the unfinished spell was based around the elements and the writers just created a plot hole that we’re trying out best to make sense of
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Ryodraco
@eternaljonathan#2
The whole thing about starswirl being sealed away before the tree even existed contradicts the show too. Because if the tree didn’t exist before he was sealed there’s no way the spell that made twilight an alicorn could have existed either seeing as it involved the elements themselves.

Forgot to reply to this earlier, but it doesn’t necessarily contradict. That is the elements may not have existed when he made the spell, but the ponies who would create the elements out of themselves did. Its likely he intended the spell to interact with the internal magic of the Pillars (the elements themselves are never stated to be needed to create an alicorn after all).

Actually, it makes one wonder if Stygian’s attempt to copy magic got inspired by Starswirl’s attempt to create new magic.
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