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29 comments posted
thps48's avatar
thps48
Wallet After Summer Sale

Young Leosword
@DarkSonata
That’s just what he’s like. Had I the energy, I’d complain to everyone on this site who’d be willing to listen about all the bullshit in the world both related and unrelated to the given topic. Goddamn motherfucking tourists on Highway 17. XP

Additionally, the show’s tendency for ambiguity and open-endedness in general just makes everpony crazy. Especially after major changes like Twilight Acorn and the addition of Poochie. XD
DarkSonata's avatar
DarkSonata
@Daneasaur
What I posted was precisely to go in contrast to how intense the debate had been. Way to blow it out of proportion. But I guess that shows how badly the whole thing hit you.

But this is what I mean. You go around pretending Pro Wings people never give any arguments. But that’s a big fat lie. There’s many threads, even now, where you get clear and well-thought replies about the opposite side, that disprove everything you say. You just ignore them because you don’t like hearing them, and then pretend they never existed.

But the truth is those breadcrumbs of yours were never anything.
You simply wanted Spike to be wingless, so you pretended that the show not talking about it was proof that he would be wingless. And you called it evidence. And attacked everyone who disagreed.

And even now we don’t hear the end of your constant complaining.
Daneasaur's avatar
Daneasaur
@DarkSonata
This, right here.

This is the part that I knew was coming.

Pro Wingless: "here are the breadcrumbs I’ve seen and why I think he’ll be wingless because these make sense"

Pro Wings: "IT FITS MY HEADCANON!"

And now we’ll never hear the end of it.
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FaustXXXVII's avatar
FaustXXXVII
Since the Beginning

Can people stop trying to make Spike into a respectable character? Show creators made him pathethic from the beginning for us to laugh at him, don’t change that.
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Background Pony #6579
@Daneasaur
I’m not against him being wingless, I just don’t see why its so bad if he gets them. And even though the the show may haven’t given us a winged form of Spike yet, it also has done nothing to confirm or even hint there’s a complete 2nd type of dragon he might belong to. It still sounds like something that would need a whole lot of headcanon to be explained.
While him simply not having reached the age where they start to develop (and his greed form not having them due to being unnatural/artificial) seems like a much simpler explanation.

@Daneasaur
1: Twilight’s accidental magic burst that turned him into "an adult". Thick neck, dopey face. Looks unlike ANY dragon we’ve ever seen.
Most of the teenage dragons look completely different from each other though. Its the adults so far that haven’t shown many variations (2-3 I think) but that just seems more laziness than anyting, such as most background ponies looking the same. Then Torch showed up, and his design was considerably different from the standard dragon model.

2: Spike mentions his "thick scales" in "green isn’t your color".
Aren’t thick scales supposed to be a "common" thing for dragons? Maybe its just me, but in most programs, games or stories I’ve seen, the thick, strong scales are almost the norm for all dragons. Why is this suddenly restricted to the wingless kind?

3: His digging skills are paramount in Dog and Pony show and frequently drawn upon via Rarity as a rather second nature aspect to him.
Dragons live in caves, and often underground. Of course they’re good diggers. Like before, I don’t see how this suggests there’s a whole other type of dragons. Do we know for a fact the other dragons aren’t as good at digging as him?

4: On his "decent to darkness" in Secret of my excess, he flashed a nictitating membrane.
Which many creatures have and are there to protect their eyes from many things depending on their lifestyle.
Eagles have them as well, they protect their eyes from high winds, snow and debris while flying at great speeds.

5: through his greed growth, he continues to look quite a bit different from the "lean" winged dragons we have seen and has QUITE a lot more bulk to his form and a completely different head structure. Comparing him to the Red and the Green dragons (which are hard to find full body images of).

Comparing them to spike, Spike is MASSIVE and much more muscular. He doesn’t look remotely the part of a creature that is designed for flight, even among dragons.
His more muscular body shape might have been a good starting point (though not a decisive one) if it wasn’t for Torch. He’s just as muscular as greed Spike, and way bigger. And yet he has functinonal wings. They don’t seem like they’d support his weight but they do. Add in a pony like Bulk Biceps and it suggests the show doesn’t really care about whether every member of an aerial race looks aerodynamic or not. Doesn’t mean they should’ve been from another race though.
They’re just…unusual.

These breadcrumbs lead me to believe that he is of Earthdragon bloodline. A type known for their durability, digging skills, and relentless strength, but in exchange, lack the gift of flight.
Maybe, but that still doesn’t mean having wings would "ruin" his character. Which is what surprised me the most from what you implied. He can have them and remain the same.

I don’t think they might go into so much detail with dragons by making entire sub-races for them. Imo, its more likely they just have much a bigger level of physical dimorphism than other races, and some are much bigger/bulkier than others, even though they’re all the same and have wings. Torch at least seems to support this idea. That’s just what I think though.

I would also say it’s safe to say there is probably a 3rd class of dragon out there that focuses in magic
Eh…kinda hope there isn’t though. I like every race having different strengths and advantages. For dragons, its that they’re the biggest and most physically potent of the sapient races. Giving them magic as well would be a bit game breaking.

(Wow, sorry for the long post. Didn’t expect it to come out like that.)
DarkSonata's avatar
DarkSonata
@TheAmazingPeanuts
Aren’t the comics and the toys using his greed form though? I’m pretty sure they also reffer to him as just big Spike, not adult Spike. I think the point he/she was making was that since we’ve seen two completely different growths from him, and neither was natural based, there’s no way for us to know if any of them is how he’s really going to grow up by normal aging.
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Daneasaur's avatar
Daneasaur
Look, here are the breadcrumbs we have through the series:

1: Twilight’s accidental magic burst that turned him into "an adult". Thick neck, dopey face. Looks unlike ANY dragon we’ve ever seen.


2: Spike mentions his "thick scales" in "green isn’t your color".


3: His digging skills are paramount in Dog and Pony show and frequently drawn upon via Rarity as a rather second nature aspect to him.

4: On his "decent to darkness" in Secret of my excess, he flashed a nictitating membrane.


5: through his greed growth, he continues to look quite a bit different from the "lean" winged dragons we have seen and has QUITE a lot more bulk to his form and a completely different head structure. Comparing him to the Red and the Green dragons (which are hard to find full body images of).




Comparing them to spike, Spike is MASSIVE and much more muscular. He doesn’t look remotely the part of a creature that is designed for flight, even among dragons.

These breadcrumbs lead me to believe that he is of Earthdragon bloodline. A type known for their durability, digging skills, and relentless strength, but in exchange, lack the gift of flight.

I would also say it’s safe to say there is probably a 3rd class of dragon out there that focuses in magic, considering the Bloodstone Scepter doesn’t look to have been created by Torch.
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Spiked Punch's avatar
Spiked Punch
@TheAmazingPeanuts
Being fair, that doesn’t tell us anything. He looked completely different both times, and in one case we couldn’t even see anything below his neck. Maybe he did have wings there and were simply inside the building. Point is, we can’t safely say if either of those is how he’s really going to grow up given time.

I’m undecided on this topic. On one hand, if not having wings is the only thing that makes him different, then its a bit depressing for me. This isn’t like with ponies and their 3 races. Wings and fire have always been the most dynamic and impresive aspects of this mythical creature, in almosy any medium. If he’s not going to have them, then at least let it be because of something special. Give him something that truly makes him stand out in return.

Heck, make it so lacking wings means he’s the last of some ancient type of dragons who grow much larger than any other, and used to terrorize the world before they went extinct or something like that. Turn the fandom upside down by taking the small harmless little guy we’re all used to, and make him the unwilling antagonist of a season premiere/finale that everyone has to band together in order to subdue.
Background Pony #6579
@Daneasaur
That’s not a fair analogy though. Applejack’s an earth pony, we know that’s what she is and that its a thing.
There is absolutely nothing implying "earth dragons" are a thing in this show outside of headcanons, aside from the fact that only the smallest/youngest looking member we’ve seen of their race, is the only one who doesn’t have them.
Meaning, it could still very well just be an age thing.

I also don’t remember the other dragons addressing his lack of wings as an "abnormality". From what I remember, they often used it as a way to mock him and his size, such as the teenagers talking about his mother having wings. If earth dragons were a thing, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to assume he comes from a family of them?

I mean, if earth dragons exist, and the dragons were mocking him for it…wouldn’t that be outright racism? I doubt the show would want to dabble on that in such a dismissive manner. Its more likely to me that it was meant as in "look at the little baby who doesn’t even have wings yet". But that’s just my opinion.

In the end, while I personally wouldn’t mind him getting wings, I also wouldn’t lose sleep if he didn’t. I just don’t get why someone can possibly think that getting them would change him in a negative way. He can still be the same character he’s always been, but with wings. He already has something else that makes him different from all other dragons: his upbringing, his values and priorities. He doesn’t have to lack one of the most defining physical characteristics of his race in order to be unique among them.

@Daneasaur
Wings would also imply the writers care about him to develop him beyond a pratfall tool. Do you really see that happening?
I don’t fully understand what you’re trying to say here. Is it basically that him lacking wings makes it easier to come to terms with the writers intentionally wanting to keep him mediocre? I mean, what does wings have to do with having "a special destiny" or a change in personality? He could still be the same guy, doing the same things and being treated the same way.

They could simply make the theme about how he’s slowly but surely "growing up" and Twilight/the Mane6 having to deal with a short-lived draconic rebel phase, after which everyone grows even closer. The end. Giving him a pair of tiny wings would be the perfect way to illustrate that he’s growing without actually having to start making him look notably bigger.

Its one of those things that are not a big deal unless someone wants to make it a big deal.
Daneasaur's avatar
Daneasaur
@animefan14
I’m well in the know that it wouldn’t "change him" as it didn’t really change twilight, but there is still a difference there in that Spike doesn’t have a "grand destiny", he’s not "one of the chosen". Heck, the Map can’t even call him anywhere because there is no mark that defines him.

He won the challenge of becoming dragon lord and gave it up, because he’s NOT like other dragons and I, personally, don’t like the idea of him becoming like the other dragons, even in form.

Spike does have something special about him, namely the strange situation of how his egg came into celestia’s care. This could be elaborated on, but chances are it won’t.

Spike will continue to be a side character with a maturity that will fluctuate for when the writers need either a smart sassy sideline viewer or an immature idiot, depending on the scene.

Wings would also imply the writers care about him to develop him beyond a pratfall tool. Do you really see that happening?
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animefan14
@Daneasaur

You know, about 3 years ago, this same argument could have been used for Twilight Sparkle as well before she became an alicorn. And we can remember that the fandom were almost split in half because of it. Sure chances are Spike will never get wings, even though every other dragon that we have seen so far have them. My thing for it is, if it happens, it happens. Even though Twilight got wings and officially became a princess, the core personality is still there. She’s still the adorkable, obsessive-compulsive bookworm that all know and love.

I believe that it would roughly work the same way for Spike. After all, if that happened, all it would really do is give him a set of wings. I don’t think a pair of wings is gonna change his personality, his sarcasm, or other things that are uniquely him…

Now Disclaimer: I’m of the side that eventually wants him to have wings; frankly I get so damn tired of seeing him falling to his death because he can’t. I can get where you are comimg from where you want him to stay an Earth Dragon that doesn’t have to fly—I assume that they have advantages over fliers and water dragons in the same way that fliers and water dragons have advantages from their brethen on other things. Not to mention if Spike is the only wingless dragon in all of Equestria, there better be a damn good reason for it, and not some bullshit excuse like "since Spike was hatched by magic instead of dragonfire, he doesn’t get wings." If that is the case, when will we see another unicorn other than Twilight actually hatch a dragon egg???
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Daneasaur's avatar
Daneasaur
@Background Pony #6579
Mainly because it’s something he doesn’t have and it makes him different from the other dragons. It’s iconic to the character.

Think of it like people starting to draw Applejack as a pegasus. You know, the pony most well known for being down to earth, cultivating the farm, as far removed from magic happenings as possible, but then people keep giving her wings for no real reason other than the fact that they ship her with RD or Thunderlane.

Has there been any official media anywhere that shows Spike with wings? Can’t say so. He’s not like the other dragons, they point out how he doesn’t have wings (abnormal for them) and these traits make him unique.
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Background Pony #6579
@Daneasaur
It’s pre-emptively ruined by the writer giving spike wings due to them wanting a continuation of the adventures of spyro and cynder.
You’re really hung up on that, huh? Why is him being given wings so bad for you? I see you complaining about it almost every time. I don’t get why is it so bad?
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