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Took the pics from here and here and put them together in a sort of mini comic. Poor Twinkie Dink :(

Prequel to >>1392482
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25 comments posted
Indigo's avatar
Indigo
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Wow, this, uh, this went places.

My only point was that it’s clear to me that Ralek has an enormous demand if his slots are filling up mere minutes after they open, and because of that, chances are he could likely afford to raise his prices and see little decrease in sales. Though a couple of you bring up some valid points; my point is based under the assumption that the reason Ralek has such a huge demand is that people like his artwork and want his art specifically and not strictly because of his prices. That would require some looking into, running some surveys, things like that. I don’t know Ralek, don’t know how much effort he puts into the economy of his commissions but if it’s something he is concerned about, I’d say it’s worth looking into, something as simple as a strawpoll asking clients what the primary deciding factor in commissioning him was. Ultimately what he decides to do, if anything at all, is up to him, of course, but it seems like he has some wiggle room to work with. The smart choice, of course, is to first find out just how much wiggle room you have to work with before doing any actual wiggling.
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Liggliluff
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@coolycool
I do hope people look at it that way. But if Ralek always charges this price, then it could be seen as the norm rather than the exception. That would be an issue.


@Background Pony #5A54
I have no interest on spending money on Ralek, and I have no friends of what I know that knows Ralek. …are you trying to insult me? 🤨

1) There are two options: first come first serve, or most money, first served (whatever it’s called). Either way, someone gets screwed over; that was my point.

4–5) Doesn’t matter if the time is pre-determines, or after he’s done. If he needs a vacation or not. You take the total amount of time it takes, including vacation, and it’s for that time it should take for it to run out.

This is what you should do if you want to maximise the profit. But you don’t have to maximise the profit.

6) This has derailed from the main topic


The point I’m trying to get to is when people (artists, customers and neither alike) comments/complains that artists are undervalued on the market. The reason is: they charge too little. Ralek, whether it’s his intention or knowledge or want to do something about it or if it’s mostly sound or not or whatever other reason you can come up with, is undervaluing his art. Factually proven by the time the slots ran out.
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Background Pony #5A54
@Liggliluff
The more you reply, the more suspicious I get that you’re salty over you (or a friend) missing out on a slot.

1)"Screwing over those who’s willing to spend more", Hhhello? "First come first serve" ring any bells? And nothing is stopping anyone from giving the artist more money. Don’t think the artist would hate it if they were given extra. 3rd part had to do with the idea: "If the artist is popular, more people follow them, and more are going to want to commission them ASAP."

4-5) I was only putting out a possibility for predetermined length of time. It’s altogether possible that they open the slots back up as soon as they’re finished. But it’s also possible that they want a break in-between. In either case, it’s up to them. If they can meet the demand just fine (which, again, might be because they want to meet the lower cost tier demand), there’s no reason for them to change their pricing. Saying that it should take as long as the slots fill up is absurd. Saying that it’s absolutely necessary for them to raise prices just because of a high demand is also absurd. Now, if it were causing actual issues with the artist, then I can see a reason for them to do so. But as of yet, they don’t have any [mentioned] problems, and nothing would stop them from simply taking a break.

6) Then the customer you talk about simply didn’t want it very much if they can just manage to walk. If they want this artist specifically, they’ll wait patiently. Otherwise, they can take that money and find another artist, who may actually need the customer. But there’s no doubt that there’s no replacement for the lower cost commissioners. Once they walk, they won’t have a choice. Higher paying customers objectively have more choices, simply because they have more options available to them, due to what they can spend.


@coolycool
This^ is also a factor.
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@Background Pony #5A54
1) I’m not saying they can’t.
Not increasing cost screws over those who’s willing to spend more money. Not increasing cost screws over those two don’t have the time to answer a notification in less than a minute.

2) I’m not saying else here.

3) Not sure what this has to do with anything

4) Everything you said was what I said, except:
If the artists set a price, and then people get used to it … it is the artists fault of undervaluing the market.

5) Saying it can’t be done in the time it sold out means exactly what this is about. If the supply runs out faster than the demand, it’s undervalued. If the demand runs out faster than the supply, it’s overvalued.

If the slots opens up at a specific time (say once a month) instead of when the commissions are done … then all slots should run out in a month, not a minute.

6) No, it’s a loss that he don’t have the supply to met the demand. The idea of slowing down how fast the slots runs out is by making some customers leave. That’s how you show it down. But you can afford people leaving, because all people willing to pay didn’t get a slot. By making one person not pay, and letting someone else who’s willing to pay more, that’s a win, not a loss. …this is what auction is based on. 1 in supply, several demands it, the highest payer gets it.
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Background Pony #5A54
@Liggliluff
I’m not even a fan of Ralek’s, but I must mention 3 things:
1) The artist can charge whatever they like. If the slots run out in a minute, they run out. Increasing prices only screws over those that can’t afford higher prices. If the artist is comfortable with their price, there’s not really a reason for them to change it. (unless they’re getting too few, in which case they’re going to have to figure out what their doing wrong.)
2) In almost any case, it’s first come first serve (there are those who will play favorites). If one was too slow or others were too quick, then it’s on the fault of the commissioners.
3) Popularity plays a major factor.

@Liggliluff
"undervaluing the drawing market"
If the artist can spit out work quickly and don’t have a problem with what they’re making, I fail to see the issue. It’s a matter of balancing speed and quality. It’s also a factor of supply and demand. It’s not one’s fault if the customers as a whole want the art at a certain price. If the customer is willing to pay, they will. If not, the it’s up to the artist to decide what they’re going to do to gain customers. Other artists will fill that gap if they’re not quick enough.

@Background Pony #0D57
Kinda this
@Indigo
artists have fanbases specifically for their art. It’s not like you can shop around and choose an artist of superior quality like you can other products because art doesn’t really work that way, it’s very subjective.
And this

@Liggliluff
But it ran out in one minute!! OOONE MINUTE!! ONE! He’s not going to draw all this in one minute.
They may not want a large workload, while trying to satisfy whoever they can. Saying it can’t be done in a minute doesn’t mean anything. They may just want a certain amount of commissions before they work on the next batch. On top of that, it’s also possible the slots open up after a predetermined amount of time, rather then when the commissions are done.

You know what’s a net loss? All the time the slots are closed before they open again. That’s exactly what’s happening at the moment.
Not really. If he’s able to always fill them when they open, he’s getting consistent customers. He will lose some customers by raising prices (affordability plays the biggest factor), and may not get as many commissions from then on.
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@Background Pony #0D57, @Indigo
It still applies somewhat. Some people will look at this art and expect this quality for this price. Another artists with the same or worse quality won’t be able to charge more of these people.

But it’s true that artists do have their own fanbases, and what one artist does have little effect on others.

> having low prices helps him get constant business
But it ran out in one minute!! OOONE MINUTE!! ONE! He’s not going to draw all this in one minute.
> Raising the price might very well make him lose customers and possibly a net loss.
Even if a 10% increase in price would drag out the time by 10× as much, it’s still a win, because he still won’t be able to complete all images in 10 minutes.

The goal is to find the price that makes the slot run out at the same time as he’s done with one. A slight increase in price won’t turn 1 minute into 1 month (and depending on the amount of slots, 1 month might work just fine).


You know what’s a net loss? All the time the slots are closed before they open again. That’s exactly what’s happening at the moment.
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Indigo's avatar
Indigo
The End wasn't The End - Found a new home after the great exodus of 2012
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@Background Pony #0D57
Pretty much what I was saying earlier: artists have fanbases specifically for their art. It’s not like you can shop around and choose an artist of superior quality like you can other products because art doesn’t really work that way, it’s very subjective.

I disagree, however, on the notion that Ralek raising his prices would cause a significant net loss. Ralek seems to have a pretty big following and obviously a LOT of demand for his talent if his commission slots fulled up in 1 minute and 13 seconds. I get the feeling that he could afford to bump his prices up a little bit and not see that much of a net loss, if not a net gain, depending on how much he raises them. I’m no economist, but I understand elasticity of demand, and I’m willing to bet he probably has a bit of wiggle room to work with.
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Background Pony #0D57
@Liggliluff
But the problem is that idea doesn’t really apply here. Each artist has their own styles and differ from one another. The price of one shouldn’t affect the other since there can be massive differences. Each style meets a certain need. Some good at feet, others rape. While it’d make sense objectively, it doesn’t subjectively. A commissioner might choose one artist over another not because of prices, but instead because one style would work better with one concept than the other. If anything, him having low prices helps him get constant business and keep himself afloat. Raising the price might very well make him lose customers and possibly a net loss. So basically, the prices of one artist generally doesn’t affect the other. Though I think his art is worth more, you could just donate however much you think it’s worth rather than telling him to raise his prices and possibly impact his income.
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Liggliluff
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@Ralek
I have explained why.
If you undervalue your quality, some people will expect that price for the same quality from other artists, and that’s a loss for them. It will happen, but to what extent is hard to say.

But you aren’t alone, there’s a lot of artists who are undervaluing themselves. Everytime an artist’s slots are sold out in a minute, then they are undervaluing themselves.

So with all artists that does this, are all contributing to undervaluing the drawing market. You are part of the problem, but you aren’t the sole problem.
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Indigo
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@Ralek
Art is a tricky thing, economically, because you are correct, not all art is equal, and plenty of artists have fans specifically of their art. I don’t know quite how large your fanbase is, Ralek, but I think Liggiluff’s point isn’t that it’s your fault that other artists make less, but that you could afford to up your prices and see a minimal loss in demand (And possibly see commission slots fill up a little slower, my head is still spinning over the thought of slots closing a little over a MINUTE after they opened, that seems absolutely insane to me O_o)
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@Liggliluff
I don’t quite see how it’s my fault that other artists make less?
If someone wants to commission an artist, they’ll commission that artist regardless of what other artists charge.
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